Date: Sun Jun 07 1998 15:27
mozel (@robnoel's morning coffee link today @reflation) ID#153102:

Mondex, the smart chip "money card, could easily accommodate Electronics Benefits as one of its "currencies".

"The Bank's" perception that Microsoft is a competitor to their "consolidated financial platform" seems to have more to do with the anti-Trust suit against Microsoft than anything else I've read.

When FDR reflated, he devalued the greenback against gold. Is there any other alternative if the greenback turns turtle from liquidations and bankruptcies ?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:51
mozel (@martial law) ID#153102:

Martial Law means the supremacy of the military over the civil authority of a nation.

In the guarantees that are the American inheritance from the English COnstitution at the time of Independence is the guarantee of immunity from martial law. This guarantee was made in the Petititon of RIght.

It is the very foundation of government according to the rule of law that the military remain subordinate to the civil authority at all times.

So, what is all this talk of martial law ? Are Americans prepared to be governed by Generals and Colonels ? And tried in courts martial ? And have no writ of habeas corpus if they are seized off the street and thrown in a dungeon ?

Martial law is not military law. Military law is according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Martial Law is NO LAW AT ALL. It is arbitrary rule by men. Period.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:36
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:

Only thing to do in my opinion after you think things through.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:22
mozel (@401K & IRA) ID#153102:

In these accounts are America's private accumulations of federal reserve notes. These are "savings" accounts. These "savings" will be mobilized. The usual way for a government to mobilize "savings" in a debt currency is by inflating. This forces the "hoarded or saved" "funds" out from under the mattress, so to speak. But, they can also mobilize the 401K and IRA "savings" by legislation. They will. They will mobilize them and put them out of your reach at the same time, I think. Because, if they don't, you will get your ands on them and hoard them.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:00
mozel (@Squirrel @Mirable Dictu: A Liberty Lawyer (Sort of)) ID#153102:

@Squirrel: I am not anti-government. I am anti- bad government. I am for government according to the Constitution and the common law.

My post yesterday morning was not about a group of men in Montana. It was about all freeman in America and about the trial in Montana of some of them.

Freeman is a legal condition, a status.

Lawyer and 'Exorcist' Perform Ritual on Capitol Steps

WASHINGTON - With all the fanfare and shocking drama of a Jerry Springer show, a man stood on the steps of the Capitol on Monday and pressed a foot-long silver cross to the sky.

His ankle-length black robe flapping in the stiff breeze and a shiny black briefcase at his feet, the man consulted the oversize leather-bound Bible propped open in his left hand and began what he said were the rituals of an exorcism.

"Kee-la-la-la-see-ki," he intoned, or so it sounded to an untrained ear.

"Kee-kee-sa-la."

The Capitol police officers who stood nearby smirked.

They had seen it all before. But the Indiana schoolchildren who had gathered to watch were not indifferent. They stood riveted as the man made the sign of the cross, incanted unintelligible phrases and held up his silver cross to the north and south, east and west.

"I'm definitely telling my friends back home it was the weirdest thing I saw while I was in Washington," shrieked 14-year-old Adrienne Hermance of Logansport, Ind.

The object of her howls was Baron Deacon, a student of Greek Orthodox theology who said he had been ordained as an exorcist 20 years ago. Born in Spain and now a resident of Boston and Puerto Rico, the man with the black pompadour and pencil mustache said he had come to Washington only at the behest of a Boston attorney, David Grossack, who believes the federal government and courts are beyond broken and in radical need of an overhaul.

"I've always tried to avoid coming here," said Deacon, who performed the exercise with all the solemnity of a funeral. "Even yesterday on the trip when we came here the car almost went over a road. And the thunder and the experience we had last night was only an indication of what is here."

Deacon, who claims to have performed hundreds of exorcism rituals around the world, said Monday's exercise by itself would not rid Washington and the nation's courts of evil. "What I did here today is only one step for what is to come," he said. "Satan has a nest where he, so to speak, lays eggs. This is his nest."

Grossack, 42, a resident of Hull, Mass., said he conjured up the stunt to drum up publicity for his mission to utterly overhaul a federal government and legal system which he says are not working for the American people.

"For all practical purposes, the politicians and legal establishment have sold their souls to the devil," Grossack said as he watched Deacon in action. "The government doesn't work for the people."

Grossack, a Republican committeeman, describes himself as a right-wing radical. The host of a public-access television program about judicial issues and the author of Constitutional Warfare, a manual for people who want to take their complaints to court without a lawyer, he heads a company called Citizens Justice Programs, which conducts training seminars for people who want to bring civil rights lawsuits against public officials.

Grossack said he had concluded that confrontation is the only way to draw attention to his beliefs that the American people have lost faith in their government and that individuals are unfairly deprived every day of their freedom, their rights, and their property.

"There are mini-Wacos taking place every day but there is a lot of apathy," he said. "In the 1960s, when people did things that were confrontational, the government took people more seriously."

[Note the government took the lawyering farmers in Montana seriously. ]

Grossack is no stranger to confrontation. In 1996 he turned up at a rally in Boston for perennial presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. Carrying a sign that read "Don't be fooled by Buchanan," he strode through the crowd shouting, "Buchanan is a Nazi! Buchanan is a Nazi!"

He once launched a crusade to persuade local government officials in Hull to remove the mosaic swastika patterns that had decorated the floors of Town Hall since 1927. One day he woke to find the word "Jew" scratched into his car.

But that was years ago. On Monday, Grossack blended in with a crowd of tourists and government workers as Deacon performed his ritual. Clad in a gray suit and clutching a black canvas briefcase, he did not draw the notice of Suanne Schwering, a newly retired eighth-grade history teacher from Logansport who stood bewitched by the ceremony.

"It wasn't like in the movie The Exorcist," she said. "This guy was waving his cape around a lot more."

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 17:40
mozel (@AragornIII) ID#153102:
 
 

Some days I have a lot of trouble with cyber protocol. Sorry. You are exonerated of guilt by association.
 
 

I'll probably get rebuked next for referring to Afro-Canadians and be informed that in the Great White, they are Canadian-Afros.

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 17:31
mozel (@Freeman is Not) ID#153102:
 
 

Freeman is a legal conditon or status. It is not the name of a group.

Slave is also a legal condition or status. A person put into slavery by force and subsequently liberated was known as a Freedman. The Freedman"s Bureau was created by Congress to help Freedmen.
 
 

In America, you choose which of these two legal conditions or statuses which you want to live in. The USE of federal reserve notes does not in and of itself determine your status. This question was settled by the US Supreme Court in Thorington v Smith. You determine your legal status as freeman or slave by the agreements you enter into, the dclarations you make, and the admissions or confessions which you make. In America you are not put into slavery by force, but until you extricate yourself by appropriate legal action from the status which you have elected for yourself, you will be held to the obligations of your slave status by force. Needless to say, Massa is happier with people who decide to live on the plantation. He employs many forms of persuasion to encourage those off the plantation to return and take up slave status again. Massa has carrots of benefits and legal and physical sticks, too.

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 16:51
mozel (@AragornIII @Bully Beef) ID#153102:
 
 

Your grocery receipt is a record of use. Not currently reportable for uses of less than 10,000 instances at one time. If receipts were written for Notes, they could not be receipts because no one has been paid. I think contradiction in the money system of a country enables doublething and newspeak. Error begets error.
 
 

@Bully Beef In response to your rascist inquiry, there was a report of some Afro-Canadians holed up in Jackson's Hole. But, Jackson may have more than one Hole in his name and one might conceivably be in Montana. Maybe some firm like Loral can build us an Afro Tracker, so we can have precise statistical data to answer your type of question.

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 16:13
mozel (@LGB re worthless paper & global consequence) ID#153102:
 
 

How have Japanese who have saved BOJ Notes or debt payable to someone besides themselves actually saved anything ? They haven't.

You misquoted me. The paper Massa lets you use and let's Loral use to compensate you for your labor is good to use anywhere on the plantation. Just be sure to follow all of Massa's rules and regulations or you will be penalized.
 
 

What I said was Massa must make sure that you believe the paper will be worth less tomorrow than it is today, so that you think it is hot money and part with it as soon as possible so you don't get burned by its devaluation.
 
 

On the global scene as on the local plantation, the saver must be destroyed to save Massa's plantation system. The means the Japanese since they are hoarding Massa's paper.

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 15:50
mozel (@LGB re Krugman) ID#153102:
 
 

How have Japanese who have saved BOJ Notes or debt payable to someone besides themselves actually saved anything ? They haven't.
 
 

Anything can be deduced from a contradiction and the contradiction at the heart of debt currency "money" and economy is that banks and corporations have been "capitalized" without capital.
 
 

The major benefit of the debt currency which people all over the world are compensated in is that it can be inflated to discourage hoarding. Well, hoarding is another word for saving, isn't it ? So, Krugman is right. If you want the people to spend the debt currency in their hands, make them believe it will always be worth less tomorrow than it is today. You have to destroy the savers to save the economy. Whoa, is this another contradiction rearing its head, a consequence of the fact you cannot "invest" debt ?

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 04:31
mozel (@Constitutional Gold in Montana ) ID#153102:
 
 

Every American ought to learn what is at stake in Montana and I hope to present the matter clearly and concisely. But first some background.
 
 

"The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government of the individual states. Each state established a constitution for itself, and, in the constitution, provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the United States framed such a government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation and best calculated to promote their interests. The powers they conferred on this government were to be exercised by itself; and the limitations on power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally, and, we think, necessarily applicable to the government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself; not of distinct governments, framed by different persons and for different purposes." Barron v. Baltimore, ( 1833 ) 7 Pet ( U.S. ) 247. Supreme Court of the United States
 
 

"Here we see the people acting as sovereigns of the whole country; and in the language of sovereignty, established a con-stitution by which it was their will that the state governments should be bound, and to which the state constitutions should be made to conform. Every state constitution is a compact made by and between the citizens of a state to govern themselves in a certain manner; and the Constitution for the United States of America is likewise a compact made by the people of the United States to govern themselves as to general objects, in a certain manner." Chisholm v Georgia, ( 1793 ) 2 Dall. U.S. 471. Supreme Court of the United States
 
 

The term "establish", as used in the Preamble, means to fix perpetually:
 
 

"ESTAB'LISH...
 
 

1. To set and fix firmly or unalterably; to settle permanently. I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, Gen. XVII
 
 

2. To found permanently; to erect and fix or settle; as, to establish a colony or empire.
 
 

3. To enact or decree by Authority and for permanence...
 
 

4. To settle or fix; to confirm...
 
 

5. To make firm; to confirm; to ratify what has been previously set or made.
 
 

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we

establish the law. ROM III"
 
 

An American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster ( 1828 ) .
 
 

"ESTABLISH. This word occurs frequently in the Constitution of the United States, and it is there used in different meanings:

( 1 ) to settle firmly, to fix unalterably; as to establish justice, which is the avowed object of the Constitution.
 
 

To settle or fix firmly; place on a permanent footing; found; create; put beyond doubt or dispute; prove; convince... " Black's Law Dic., supra, at 642.
 
 

Thus, if the Union spoken of exists by the power of the people, then also the founding law upon which that Union was predicated in the first place is unchangeable except by their authority and so also the natural de jure citizenship recognized thereby, which said status preceded the constitutions of both the Constitution for the United States of America and the several States therein imbued with that "original right" clearly determined to be the paramount authority by the court in Marbury v. Madison 5 U.S. ( 1 Cr ) 137, supra at 176-78 ( 1803 ) . Supreme Court of the United States
 
 

THE CONSTITUTION WAS ORDAINED, NOT BY THE STATES, BUT BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATES WHO, AS THE CREATORS, WERE AND ARE THE SOVEREIGN
 
 

"The Constitution of the United States was ordained and established, not by the States in their sovereign capacities, but emphatically, as the preamble of the Constitution declares, by the people of the United States." Hunter v. Martin, 1 Wheat 305, 324 ( 1814 ) . Supreme Court of the United States
 
 

The original Constitution creating the Government of the Union, then, is emphatically, and truly, a law of "the people" and can be altered or dissolved only by "the people" or "their posterity," under Article 5, Constitution for the United States of America.
 
 

"In the next place, the state governments are, by the very theory of the constitution, essential constituents parts of the general government. They can exist without the latter, but the latter cannot exist without them. Without the intervention of the state legislatures, the president of the United States cannot be elected at all; and the senate is exclusively and absolutely under the choice of the state legislatures. The representatives are chosen by the people of the states. Every where the state sovereignties are represented; and the national sovereignty, as such, has no representation. How is it possible, under such circumstances, that the national government can be dangerous to the liberties of the people, unless the states, and the people of the states, conspire together for their overthrow? If there should be such a conspiracy, is not this more justly to be deemed an act of the states through their own agents, and by their own choice, rather than a corrupt usurpation by the general government?" Story's Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, ( 1833 ) , sec. 510, Vol. 1, p. 488.
 
 

From above, "the founding law upon which that Union was predicated in the first place is unchangeable except by their authority".
 
 

The founding law, the venue established by the people is unchangebale except by their authority. Now, in the venue fixed permanently by the people at the founding, gold and silver coin are the tender. And the rule of decision of facts tried by jury is according to the common law. But, now we have fiat paper for tender. And the rule of decision is according to complex combined rules of various jurisdictions of law, equity, admiralty, and international law or the law of nations. None of this was done by the authority of the people or according to Article V. Now, we shall have the founding law restored or we are adrift with government unleashed to change itself as it pleases, take such additional powers as it pleases, and tyrannize as it pleases. And it is this condition of things to which the Freeman would draw the attention of the nation. Why has it fallen to farmers to practice liberty law and suffer incarceration and mistreatment by jailors ?
 
 

Why has not the so-called profession of lawyers and attorneys defended the Constitution and brought this state of affairs to the attention of the people ? Is it because they are keen merely to make a fee and to protect their fraternity of titles of nobility and honor ( esquire and Your Honor ) and too intent on prospering at its expense to preserve the Republic or defend the Constitution ? Why have the attorneys allowed the government to capture the grand jury and stood silent and not gone among the people to arouse them ? The grand jury is the instrument of the people to investigate the operations of government and to hand down indictments for crimes done by government officers. Why is the grand jury now presented just what prosecutors want to bring before it. Why isn't the grand jury taking testimony and summoning witnesses without restraint ny judges ? Isn't the tail wagging the dog?
 
 

Now, the Freeman are being tried out of their presence and being represented by attorneys appointed by the judge and of whom they do not approve. What kind of a trial is that ? What kind of a court is it that would condone such a trial ? If the government can forbid you to speak in your own defense at trial, deny you your right to counsel of your own choice, and appoint an attorney to speak for you, an attorney who is beholden to the court for his livelihood and preferment, can even innocent babes not be convicted easily ? These are political trials in a Star Chamber and not one whit better than the Stalin show trials or the travesties presided over by German judges in Nuremburg in the worst days of national socialism. Why are the attorneys participating in this kangaroo court ? Why are they not protesting to the media loudly and every day ?
 
 

The issue is bondage. The stakes are freedom.

Date: Thu Jun 04 1998 03:01

mozel (@ A Thought) ID#153102:
 
 

All of the key people in gold are outside of the USA. They are in the Mid-East, Europe, and Hong Kong-China. They are the actors. Elsewhere are the anticipators and reactors.
 
 

Speaking of aniticipating or pre-empting, the suit filed against the German Banks seems to fall into that category. The class action suit was reported to have 11,000 claimants. If you budget just $20 to find and affiliate each claimant to the suit, that's $220,000. At $100 it's $1,100,000. Where did the money come from ? And why did it take all these years for the survivors to find an attorney ? I sense the background presence of the USG here somewhere. The coverage of the suit has certainly put dirty gold on the front page again. If something were not being cooked up by the actors, there would be no need for pre-emption, I think.
 
 

It seems to me a significant part of the actors have interests in the African goldfields. If this is correct, the volume and movement of African shares will be a leading indicator. The insiders always reach for the first dollar of profit.

Date: Wed Jun 03 1998 03:48
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

These are peaceable men who never harmed a soul. Like I said before, this is all about bondage. These men refuse the legal condition of slavery. They do not assent to the frauds being perpetrated under color of law. It's their birthright to be Freemen and they stand on it.

There are a handful of people who comprehend the issues and the stakes, but more every day. Media coverage is not much use for understanding anything, really. Probably not even football games.

Texas is a different matter altogether because it was a country before it was a state. Do you think NZ should not be a fragment, but assimilated by Australia ?

Date: Wed Jun 03 1998 02:58
mozel (@Update 6-2-98 8:00p.m. Montana) ID#153102:

Criminal Complaint by Affidavit, Russell Dean,

Served by Justice Petersen

I, Russell Dean, Jus soli, Man of Birthright, a servant of Heavenly Father, Yhvh by and through my one and only Redeemer, Yahshua, the Living Christ to present this Affidavit, a criminal complaint as to my being brutally assaulted the past two days by INTERPOL agents wearing corporate insignia of US MARSHALL/POLICE and YELLOW STONE COUNTY DETENTION FACILITY. They came to our dungeon, when we are continuing to be held hostage after over seven hundred ( 700 ) days, at or about 6 A.M. and asked if we wanted to go to the satanic foreign fraudulent so-called court and we gave no response; then at or about 7 A.M. Rod Ostermiller and others with a camera came by and again we said nothing.

Finally at about 7:30 whole goon squad came by and despite their question as to whether we wanted to participate , and our non-assumpsit, no consent, brutally and without regard for our safety or will, did drag us in our undershorts into the dorm and slammed us over on our belly, someone stepped on my head and they put handcuffs on my arms behind my back and shackles on my ankles, and then they jerked us to our feet and dragged us down the hall to a room where the cold was unbearable.

Today I had the additional problem of a hood placed over my head as a punishment for having spit in the face of one of my assailants on Tuesday.

The Billings Gazette had bold-faced lies from Dennis McCave as he said these brutal attacks are not happening. Wednesday, I witness marshals assaulting LeRoy Michael and that his wrist and finger are all sprained, and his arms are legs are all bruised. His nose is wounded and bruised. His blood was all over his window and sink in our window in the dungeon when I got back.

On Tuesday Rodney Owen was brutalized in my presence as he was jabbed with a handcuff keys and hands were twisted over handcuffs until he screamed and defecated in his pants.

Ralph Emmett a 68 year old man was dragged by his arms down the hall and his back severely injured ( Tuesday ) . Then today he was hauled down on a gurney and had to sit with his knees on the chair and his elbows on the chair back. Later the hard jail mattresses were arranged on the floor for him to remain sitting doggie style on the cold floor all day. He hobbles with weakness and could hardly talk tonight. I pray we have no martyrs here. We are close.

Dale Martin has been severely injured and it is a a certainty his hip will never be the same. He suffers as all supra, but then slammed from his bunk on the concrete floor.

So say I, so say we all this is true, correct, and certain, my yeas are yea and my nays are nay this twenty seventy day if the fifth month nineteen hundred ninety-eight, anno domini.

L.S. Russell Dean
Garfield county, Montana state.
 
 

The computer is again off line, pieces of news are coming out slowly. The phone call this morning from the jail is confirmed and local TV is now saying Russell Landers is hospitalized due to dehydration. The CBS affiliates are reporting that Judge Coughenour ( pronounced 'koon-hour' ) had removed the jury today after a defense lawyer was giving the impression that the instruments used to purchase various items by Freemen were legitimate. The Judge went on to say that if the lawyer kept this up the Judge would tell the jury the instrument was "junk". The TV also reported that some of the Freemen were on a "fast". The proper phrase would be 'food and water hunger strike'.

This just in 8:30 pm local time:John Patrick was arrested this afternoon for 'calling out the militia'. He has made two calls to the Freedom Center for help.

CBS television news woman Julie Kerber of KTVQ received word from some of the defense attorneys that all of the incarcerated Freemen will be moved to some hospital, possibly tonight. This word came to the Center in the last few minutes.
 
 

This morning Kamala, Susan confirmed that the YCDF is still closed to the public.

The only voice We had from the lawyer's side was John Patrick. He is now in jail.

This is a true and accurate transciption of information received Tuesday night June 2, 1998 A.D.

William David, Junior., Sullivan near Billings, Montana

Our life, liberty and property are in this battle being waged in Billings, Montana. Please pray for the victory over the forces of evil in our country and for the safety of the Montana freemen.

Call the following numbers several times a day during regular business hours to let them know that we care and our numbers are growing. It will only cost a couple of dollars a day.

Sheriff Chuck Maxwell - 406-256-2929
Governor Raciocot - 406-444-3111
Judge Coughenour ( koon-hour ) - 406-256-2851
Dennis McCave ( jail ) 406-256-6881

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it.

John Hay: Castilian Days, II, 1872

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 05:01
mozel (@aurator The Problem is bigger the closer you get to it.) ID#153102:

It all started on Jan. 13, 1994, the Orthodox New Year's Eve, when a group of American and Norwegian soldiers serving within the U.N. mission in Macedonia got stuck in the mud. Literally. As they struggled to free their vehicle, they were captured by a Serbian border patrol which claimed that U.N. troops had crossed the border and were on Serbian soil. The American and the Norwegian soldiers were held by the Serbs for 11 hours, questioned and eventually released in the early morning hours of Jan. 14, 1994.

Such incidents were quite common on the poorly-marked Macedonia-Serbia border. After all, prior to the NWO busting up the former Yugoslavia in 1991-1992, both Macedonia and Serbia were a part of the same country. Thus there was no need to have "interstate" borders marked any more clearly than there is between Arizona and California, for example, or between Indiana and Ohio. According to a statement by the Finnish General, Juha Engstrom, published by the U.N. Peace Forces News in October 1995, there were 30 such border incidents in 1994.

So what's the big deal? Well, Haverinen, the AFN newsman, got the wind of the Jan. 13 border incident. And he questioned the Able Sentry's public affairs officer, Major David Richards, about what happened on Jan. 13, 1994. Richards responded with the "we're not going to confirm or deny it"-comment, refusing to discuss the matter further, according to Haverinen's affidavit.

Meanwhile, back in Macedonia, what happened next was nothing short of bizarre. As Haverinen walked from the Able Sentry base to the nearby Skopje airport, he was arrested by the U.S. Army MPs. "Major Richards doesn't want you flying anywhere," Sgt. Christian Moldey, an MP, reportedly told Haverinen at the time. The newsman protested claiming he was an American civilian whose constitutional rights were being violated. To no avail.

Once in detention at the Able Sentry base, Haverinen even sought the help of a chaplain. "I was frightened and shaken," he told us during the April interview.

After a six-hour detention, Haverinen was released on orders from Lt. Col. Carter Ham, the man who initially tried to impose the gag rule about the Jan. 13, 1994 border incident, according to Haverinen. Yet only five months later, Col. Ham was quoted in a May 12, 1994 European edition of the Stars and Stripes, commenting about the very same Macedonia-Serbia border incident, Haverinen said in his sworn affidavit.

Ever since, Haverinen has been trying to get his story out - with no takers among the establishment media. "I have been working this issue for four years," he wrote to us in mid-April. "I will continue to work this story for 44 more years. I don't get tired of an issue when I have been subjected to criminal behavior."

A resident of Maine at the time, he had also contacted his then Senator, William Cohen, asking for help. No dice. Ironically, Cohen is now the U.S. Secretary of Defense. The reason for Cohen's "lack of interest?" In a typical Clinton administration style, the Pentagon has gone from defense to offense. They accused Haverinen of violating Col. Ham's no-drinking order. Never mind that he was an American civilian at the time, and not subject to any military rules - in Macedonia or elsewhere.

In a July 7, 1997 letter to Cohen, Lt. Col. Howard Brosseau, the U.S. Army congressional coordinator at the time, wrote to the then Senator Cohen that, "the ( Able Sentry ) command was concerned about Mr. Haverinen's consumption of alcohol." And that's why he was arrested? ( Haverinen admitted to us to having had three beers the night before his arrest, while visiting the Finnish unit of the U.N. Macedonia peacekeeping force ) .

Since the time he was labeled as a "whistleblower," Haverinen says he was treated as a pariah. His performance ratings were lowered; he was harrassed in other ways, too. And finally, he quit his AFN post in November 1997, to take a position at a civilian public network station in the U.S. So where's the story, besides the two bizarre detentions; one over three cans of beer? Well, the real story is the beer drinking charge may have been made to gag a reporter and cover-up a more serious matter - a possibly unlawful presidential deployment of the U.S. troops in Macedonia.

According to a Dec. 6, 1995 Motion to Dismiss filed by Ron Ray, a Kentucky-based attorney, in the United States of America -vs- Michael G. New case ( SPC, USA, 450-73-3242 - a well publicized case of a U.S. soldier, about to be deployed in Macedonia, who refused to wear the United Nations colors above that of the U.S. - see TiM GW Bulletin 98/4-1, Apr. 2, 1998 ) . In his motion, Ray argued that the deployment of the U.S. troops in Macedonia was in violation of:

( a ) 22 U.S.C. Code Sec. 287d, or in the alternative, 22 U.S.C. Sec. 287d-1; ( b ) Article I, Section 8, Clauses 12, 13, 14, and 18 of the United States Constitution; ( c ) Article II, Section 2, Par. 1 of the United States Constitution; and ( d ) Article II, Section 2, Par. 2 of the United States Constitution.

Ray's Motion to Dismiss also included a reference to a Mar. 22, 1995 report by the then U.N. Secretary-General, Boutros-Boutros Ghali, which stated that the UNPROFOR was structured initially into "three operational commands: UNPROFOR ( Croatia ) ... UNPROFOR ( Bosnia and Herzegovina ) ... and UNPROFOR ( Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia ) ."

Now, let's try to reduce all these acronyms and all this "legalese" to common sense. What this Kentucky attorney was basically saying was that, in order for the President of the United States to send our troops to hazardous duty, such as that under "Chapter VII" of the U.N. Charter, he had to have obtained Congressional approval. Which neither Bush nor Clinton ever did with respect to the Macedonia deployment ( and even in Bosnia, Clinton got it only AFTER he had already committed the U.S. troops to it per the Dayton agreement of November 1995 ) .

Suddenly, the Serbian "border incident" of Jan. 13, 1994; Haverinen's allegedly unlawful arrest a few days later; Michael New's case of refusing to serve under the U.N. colors; and the deployment of the American troops in Macedonia - all begin to acquire a common thread: possible violations of the United States Constitution by our last two Presidents, both of whom had sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution.

And that is the reason why we think that Haverinen's story goes beyond the three possibly illegally consumed cans of beer. And why it is bigger than the six hours of an unlawful detention which this American citizen had suffered in January 1994 at the hands of the American troops in Macedonia.

For, as Juvenal ( a.d. 60-130 ) , a Roman, asked some 21 centuries ago: "But who is going to guard the guards themselves?" ( i.e., if the American Presidents, protected by their personal Army and Navy, get away with violating the U.S. Constitution which they have been elected to guard ) .

from Truth in Media

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 03:28
mozel (@sharefin I trust your judgement. Kind of you to make the effort.) ID#153102:

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 02:51
mozel (@Jack) ID#153102:

The Bank already holds equitable interest in the land of the State of New Jersey. If the feudal ground-rent ( as property tax ) is not paid, the State forecloses, but the true, unidentified party of interest is The Bank. The same was true of the widow's ejectment. When The Bank forecloses on this loan, it will own the shares in the corporations and have interest in not only the land and buildings, but also in the other assets of the corporations, the last unencumbered asset in the country.

We are again utterly subject to a King.

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 02:18
mozel (@Other Cash Flows) ID#153102:

"In late June 1997, the State of New Jersey finalized an arrangement to borrow 2.8 billion dollars at an interest cost of 7.6% and an up-front fee of fifty million dollars in order to invest the money in U.S. equities."

Here is margin on a scale never dreamt of in 1929. It appears that State Ownership with funds provided by The Bank may be the heart and soul of The New Paradigm. This would be the logical final development of Corporate Socialism.

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 01:56
mozel (@Just a Bit More on Widows) ID#153102:

At common law, nobody could have budged the widow in Atlantic City from her dower. But, she was not in a common law jurisdiction. She was in her legal status just another artificial person. Moreover, her land title in all probability had the defect of not being allodial because of the work of the attorney when the property was acquired. The press called this eminent domain, but I daresay that the State was moving on its equitable interest in the property. If you think of the incident as a hostile corporate takover, you will be in the right category of jurisprudence.

Someone posted about the inherent inflation of "negative interest currencies" and how they discouraged hoarding. Well, this is another way of saying they spawn corporate law for everyone, artificial person law that evicts widows who want to hold on to the family home, that evicts grandfathers who want to hold on to the family farm. They institutionalize usury that compels mothers to leave infants in the care of strangers to go to work to pay the family tax burden. And these devil's currencies reward idle trading and unproductive speculation and penalize thrift, production, and saving. And in the end degrade us to rationalizing the ejectment of widows.

Date: Tue Jun 02 1998 01:25
mozel (@Widows) ID#153102:

There is a consensus among some that the Widow in Atlantic City was an idiot, who had a poor lawyer. Do we expect poor widows to be able to hire the best lawyers ? If so, who will be left to represent the Trumps ? Is justice supposed to depend on the quality of your lawyer ? I always thought justice was about right and wrong. Still do.

Well, I think attitudes like these toward the widow portend ill. They portend profound moral corruption. Widows and orphans are by definition, defenceless. There is something fundamentally indecent about calling someone's mother an idiot. There is something fundamentally corrupt for calling a widow an idiot for expecting the government that her family supported with taxation for lo these many years to protect her right to her property. And defend her from an outrageous speculator. Were widows excluded from the people whose rights were secured when the government was established ? I find no record of it.

It was probably not just the house that was "ugly". The widow was probably ugly, too. Old, wrinkled, careworn. All she asked was to live out her days in the familiar house of her memories. Her family home.

This is what comes of breaking eggs to make omelets in the service of socialism, corporate socialism, nazism, communism, fascism, ...ism. Real people are hurt. Leave me out the crowd that would justify putting widows on the street.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 19:19
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

When Gold is $50 per oz BIS is bankrupt. It's all about the War on Gold.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 19:11
mozel (@robnoel) ID#153102:

Interesting story on the Hunts. There are three sets of rules in federal court. The federal rules of civil procedure, the federal rules of criminal procedure, and the federal rules of political procedure. These latter are not published and the defendant is guaranteed to lose.

One wonders what Buffet really has in mind. His father understood honest money and the law.

The Conventions and Treaties which the federal government has entered into will bring gloom and doom on you when you fully understand their portent. Most of the landmass of the United States was involved in the Heritage Rivers Executive Order.

And the coming Emergency is going to accelerate the pace.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 18:48
mozel (@CompuGeek) ID#153102:

It is difficult to conceive of being free and owning things if you have always been in bondage and merely the USer of things by permission. That's why these concepts are alien to Europeans.

One thing you will find is that you cannot trust law dictionairies of recent vintage. They are tuned to the viewpoint of the attorneys who practice corporate and artificial person law exclusively now.

Currency is cash. There is no contingent or future promise in it. It is its own promise intrinsic to itself and fulfilled in the present. Cash then pays the debt on the spot. So, what we call cash and currency are not so since they are Notes or Promises to Pay. All you can do with what we call cash is discharge an obligation on the spot. But, debt can never be paid with debt and a Note is a debt.

Theory of money does not interest me. I feel that subject is academic. Honest money does interest me. Honest money at common-law is gold and silver coin. It pays debt. The transaction by it is substance for substance. And gold and silver coin fulfill all of the functions of money honestly: by measure and fineness a trustworthy unit of account that does not deteriorate with time; what you deposit will equal what you withdraw regardless of time passed 2. a medium for exchange 3. a store of value of intrinsic worth from rarity and not susceptible to manufacture

By the standard of common-law, federal reserve notes are counterfeit money.

The Indians had their sayings about land ownership. They also whupped up on any untribed Indian who got into their territory. Thwack was the sound made when an Indian claim of title was filed, I think.

The condition of slavery from not having absolute rights of property over the compensation for your labor ( federal reserve notes ) and the feudal condition of not having absolute, allodial title to land and hence having to pay a perpetual feu ( tax ) to live on the land are related. Both are the result of the Demoncratic Socialist Revolution of FDR.

Both can still be fought in the law by those who want to be free. But, you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. You cannot be dependant and independant at the same time. The law will see through your fraud.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 17:12
mozel (@Studio @chas ) ID#153102:

Studio It is a true saying that no man can serve two masters.
also, "Free; not holden of any lord or superior...; the opposite of feudal" p 70 Black's Law 5th Ed

chas If you can't get it from the source I showed, let me know. If you are paying property tax, you don't have allodial title. Fee simple is just another merchantable title, a color of title, I fear.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 16:19
mozel (@NJ @chas ) ID#153102:

NJ A man has allodial, absolute title to his land or he is not a Freeman.

If you have a beef with a corporation having allodial title, that's another matter. If you have a beef with the government selling land for less than its worth, that's another matter. If you want to sell your land and hold on to the water rights or mineral rights, that's another matter. But, if you have not allodial, absolute title to the land that is yours, you have been reduced to the status of serf. These are not just idle words. They are words of life-altering consequence.

@chas Can of worms indeed. And it is all BS. And the people have been disinherited. And I've said it all before here in some depth. Now, I am in possession of a 210 page document that purports to show how to obtain allodial title. It was once obtainable at 714-374-6631 from Citizens for Sovereignty, Huntington Beach, Califfornia. In the Western States, you purportedly obtain allodial title via a Federal Land Patent. In the original states, it's more complicated. But there is a Land Office somewhere. The fact is the legal system only delivers to the buyer a merchantable title. And when the attorneys get through with the transaction, the State is an equitable owner. So, when they foreclose for taxes, they are making a claim on their own ownership. The equitable ownership is also how they get in the door to restrict use and regulate activity on the land. They are taking care of their own interest in the property. They have the truer title after the attorneys finish.

What burns me is that the attorneys take pay from you for doing a job on your for the State. And never clue anybody in.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 15:11
mozel (@WileE Thanks. ) ID#153102:

I'll keep it up as long as I can. I confess your words were most welcome today and gratefully received.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:58
mozel (@tsclaw) ID#153102:

I agree. In fact, I think the name Turbo Tax says a lot about what the program is designed to deliver to Massa.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:53
mozel (@chas) ID#153102:

Thanks for your comments. I ask again, "In what sense is it our country if we have not absoloute, allodial title to land, the sky above it, and the earth and all its contents beneath ?"

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:44
mozel (@Gun Control I.Q. Test) ID#153102:

Test Question: Do you think the right to keep and bear arms is necessary to the security of a Free Republic and do you believe the right to use arms in self-defense is inalienable ?

Those who answer No are not smart enough to own guns and should not be Permitted to do so.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:36

mozel (@Remember People Don't Invent Nukes; They Make Themselves. @tclaw) ID#153102:

I forgot to mention that this Legal Robbery Assistance service is performed by officers of the Legal Robber. You know, like attorneys are officers of the Court.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:29
mozel (@tclaw) ID#153102:

I am offering a new service. It's called Legal Robbery Assistance.

The way it works is if you pay me to tell you how much the Legal Robber wants, then you will never actually have to face the Legal Robber. Sound good ? Fees for this service are modest. In the same sense of the word when it is used in the statement "taxes are modest".

Call one of my type when gold reaches its full potential. Or when you win lotto.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 14:04
mozel (@To Whom It May Concern) ID#153102:

The satellites, the missles, the national parks and forest, the strategic reserves of oil and metal and chemical, and every other tangible BELONGS TO MASSA.

Now, show me where MASSA has ENCUMBERED his things with debt. The notes are not redeemable in Massa's things. Where does it say Massa has to give up his things if he defaults ?

Massa has encumbered you, your children ( which are in your custody for only so long as you obey Massa's rules and regulations for raising children ) , and the things Massa allows you to use according to rules and regulations with debt. You have to give up your things if you don't pay Massa's tax that he uses to pay your debt.

You can show a man how he is in the condition of slavery, but if he doesn't want to see it, he will not.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 11:45
mozel (@Alberich or Nat Turner Strikes Out) ID#153102:

Nat Turner goes to the plantation. He says, "Brothers and sisters, you are not free. You are in bondage to Massa. Put down his tools by which you increase his wealth, but have none of your own. Claim the right of property in your own labor."

And the listeners say, "Massa is not all that bad. He cares and shares. He lets us USE the cabin. He lets us USE the team and wagon to go visiting. He lets us USE notes on his account to get ourselves clothes at the general store. He lets us sing and dance and such. You go on. You be just talkin' stuff belongs in a book or sumfin."

 The difference is this as best I can explain it. If you OWN a thing, you have unrestricted USE of it and all rights to it, subject of course to the common-law prohibition of harming another or his property. If you USE a thing, you do so by permission and strictly in accordance with rules and regulations or it can be seized and your rights in it made void and you fined or imprisoned, and any rights which you have been GRANTED in the thing are restricted and can be WITHDRAWN.

It might as well be said that it is academic whether or not you are in a trap until they close the door.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 11:22
mozel (@Y2K) ID#153102:

It's Political Opportunity that won't be missed. If enought thins don't break, they will be covertly broken by covert ops. FEMA will take over. The Emergency will never end. The country will be run like the Post Office. And you will have more people going postal than ever before imaginable.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 11:10
mozel (@The Condition of Slavery & The Big Lie) ID#153102:

The condition of slavery is not being in chains. That's imprisonment. Only disobedient slaves need be imprisoned.

The condition of slavery is having no right to your property in labor.

The slave works, but another owns the right to the property produced by the work.

Now, if you are compensated by Notes which are not owed to you, of which you are not the owner, but merely a USER according to rules and regulations, what happened to your right to your property in your labor?

Put another way, if the Notes are your compensation, are they not the property produced by your labor ? If the Notes are the property produced by your labor, but you are not the owner of them, are you not in the condition of a slave ?

But, you say, "I don't feel like a slave." And I say that's how you feel and not the fact of the matter. But, you say, "Slavery was prohibited by amendment to the Constitution." And I say, slavery was reserved as a punishment for crime AND bondage to a corporation or to a government was not contemplated. It was that one man be master over another in law that was abolished. Persons and artificial persons were not contemplated. It is perfectly lawful for an artificial person or a corporation to acquire the rights in property of the work of another. A hostile takeover is one corporation putting another in slavery against its will. And did I not tell you that you are almost certainly an artificial person in law by reason of agreements you have entered into ? So, in how many ways are you in the condition of slavery is the only question, not whether or not you are.

So, there are two Big Lies so far 1. That you are Free and 2 that Financial Assets are a store of wealth.

For some reason, the word money is on the positive side of the thinking ledger. So, regardless of how many times you tell people, the money is debt, it never registers. "The money" never moves from the positive to the negative side in the thinking ledger. It is too monstrous. The thought, the consequences, are just too monstrous to consider. That is the secret of the genuine Big Lie. It can't be faced. But, the truth is all financial assets are just derivatives of debt and no better than debt. All of the postives are fundamentally negatives. All of the labor that was expended in acquiring those "assets of debt" was stolen by fraud. Financial assets are literally worth less than zero. It is the Big Lie that makes us think or believe otherwise. As another Big Lie we cannot face keeps us in denial of our condition of slavery.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 05:32
mozel (@CompGeek) ID#153102:

What I said was two UNLIKE things at the same time.

A store of value is unlike a Debt.

A substance is unlike a Debt.

This has nothing to do with debits and credits in double entry bookeeping.

I suggest you ponder my post The Condition of Slavery and determine if your compensation is satisfactory.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 05:19
mozel (@CompGeek) ID#153102:

You are inadvertendly volunteering yourself into a slave labor camp.

I think it will save time if you work forward from the word capital and do not start by saying capital is money.

Land is capital. Gold is capital. Silver is capital. Other PM's are capital. Other SUBSTANCES are less suitable because they deteriorate over time. Capital is a substance which gives unvarying service over time.

Paper does not give unvarying service over time. No matter how many numbers you print on it, it does not become capital.

Error begets error. If you "capitalize" a corporation or make deposits in a bank with something besides capital, it's a contradiction.

If you only consider medium of exchange in thinking of money, you leave out the most important function of money, which is unit of account and you leave out a third function which is store of value. Without a substance of some kind as the unit of account, money is entirely legal fiction arbitrarily changeable and is not a store of value.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 04:48
mozel (@CompGeek) ID#153102:

You said the paper FRN is both money and debt. To say a thing can be two unlike things at the same time is a contradiction. From that error, anything can be deduced.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 04:37
mozel (@CompGeek) ID#153102:

Well, you are on the right track. But have made a seriously wrong turn.

If they can say a dollar is a dollar by fiat, they can compel anything. There is no basis for freedom at all. And, why, in fact, should they even bother to compensate you at all ? And the closer we get to pure fiat, the clearer the slave labor nature of paper "money" becomes. In fact, since you are not the owner of the Note you receive as compensation, we are already there.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 04:18
mozel (@The Condition of Slavery) ID#153102:

It's not being in chains. That's imprisonment. Only disobedient slaves need be imprisoned.

The condition of slavery is having no right to your property in labor.

The slave works, but another owns the right to the property produced by the work.

Now, if you are compensated by Notes which are not owed to you, of which you are not the owner, but merely a USER according to rules and regulations, what happened to your right to your property in your labor ?

Put another way, if the Notes are your compensation, are they not the property produced by your labor ? If the Notes are the property produced by your labor, but you are not the owner of them, are you not in the condition of a slave ?

Date: Sun May 31 1998 03:52
mozel (@And from a contradiction you can deduce ANYTHING!) ID#153102:

So, if your "money", "banking", and "law" are all based on a contradiction ( and they provably are ) , then the Babel of deductions in economics and finance and from legislatures is a guaranteed result. Or, as they used to say, error begets error.

The contradiction is, of course, that there is no capital in the things that have been "capitalized".

Date: Sun May 31 1998 03:39
mozel (@Leverage) ID#153102:

Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

Usury is the Mother of Leverage.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 03:29
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

Banking is a system.

Society is not a system. When a system is imposed on society, that is tyranny. When individuals transact freely and voluntarily without fraud or force for mutual benefit in their individual pursuit of happiness, that is freedom.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 03:23
mozel (Ron) ID#153102:
 
 

Continuous robbery is bondage.

Murray Rothbard is recommended.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 03:18
mozel (@Gollum) ID#153102:

I think if you create an equation using L for Labor and G for greenbacks and T for Taxes where T = L*G , you will stop laughing.

For some reason, people vastly underestimate the tax burdem. ( Maybe they think they are getting a last laugh by paying with printed paper. ) But, if you just take a pair of shoes, for example, and calculate the portion of each cost that goes into the final price which is tax, you will realize much more of every greenback earned goes to taxation than is commonly supposed. The shoes start with ground-rent on the land where the cattle graze; the portion of the the vet bill that is tax ( not tax on the bill. That's extra. ) , the portion of the feed bill, of transport, auction, butchering, tanning. At every step, there is tax in the cost. And then at the end, you pay sales tax on the final price, which is in part tax on tax actually.

If we were peasants, we would know what to do. The Baron has all the gold in his castle.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 02:52
mozel (@Gollum) ID#153102:

A greenback is a Note for Nothing. So it is a Promise to Pay Nothing. It is an utter fraud to call it a Note at all. It is as if I took candy from your store and gave you a piece of paper that said "1 UNIT. Use this to pay your rent." and told you "If you get any argument from the landlord, just call my goon squad." What would you call that transaction. Extortion ? Robbery ? I have used force to take your candy, basically. And put you in bondage for the value of the candy.

But it's worse than that because the government has agreed to pay interest for the Notes that it forces you to USE. And it collects Notes from you to satisfy that interest due. Nothing ever gets paid. It can't. There's nothing but Notes. Everything is a liability except the tangibles and they are all encumbered. And on top of that is the fractional reserve fraud by which a few Notes are the basis for the issuance of a multiple of Notes.

Bondage, literally, is what this is all about.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 01:24
mozel (@Tyranny No Slogan Not for Computer Users (site related) @Squirrel) ID#153102:

FACT: Computer networks are being used as an legal excuse for issuing blanket search warrants for networked buildings even when file servers are not a part of the network...and not just in Oregon.

FACT: March 6th, 1997, a full building search was executed in Coos Bay under a warrant naming only ONE person who lived there, impacting the lives and privacy of over 20 people leasing space in the 4 floor, 33,000 sq ft multiuse building. The search execution was upheld as "legal" by an Oregon judge, because of the presence of an unfinished, one week old network that only extended to one floor of the four floor structure ( the network did not include a file server, it was a direct connect to the internet only ) . It is important to note this network did NOT even exist when the suspected "illegal access" of a local ISP occured 4 months prior to the multi-officer raid on this building . Most of the occupants did not even own computers, ( but ALL were searched ) . Plus, privately owned computers connected to the network also had their hard drives mirror imaged in the search, ( one computer not owned by the accused suffered damages in the process )

The judge upheld this search warrant execution as legal based on the following:
#1. According to Judge R. Barron, ( Coos County Oregon ) , there is NO legal responsibility on an officer to verify or investigate information given to him prior to a search execution. The lead officer "thought" he was acting on reliable information. He was under no obligation legally to attempt to verify anything told to him. Nor is he required to limit the search execution once it becomes apparent he was misinformed. His ONLY obligation "legally" was to "spew" what he was told by any informants "verbatim" into the affidavit underlying the search warrant and to stay within the guidelines established in the warrant .

Therefore, because the officer "acted in good faith", the warrant and how it was executed was legal.

#2. Under the law, as interpreted by this judge, a computer network connection IS a valid reason for a broad spectrum search regardless of where the network reaches. The "suspected" setup of a network as outlined by a "victim/ or witnesses" ( even if they have no actual first hand nowledge of the network ) justifies The Computer Crime Team using a broad spectrum search warrant execution as a way of "investigating" what is fact.

This judge implied that people should "expect" this loss of the right to privacy when they link to a computer network .... and also the trauma that such a search provokes, even if you are innocent of wrong doing. If your home computer is linked to your office network, and someone at work is accused of wrong doing, your home IS legally subject to search .... because it is linked to that network.

I do not intend to use this forum to debate the innocence or guilt of the ONE person who was named in the warrant...that case is still in the courts. That a whole building of people was searched under this warrant is the issue .... and I was one of them.

Where do the rational guidelines set in ? What doors are we leaving open for abuse by police officers and for the new computer crime team to violate our civil rights?

This problem is NOT limited to Oregon.... raids similar to this one have been reported in other states as well, including attorney networks in California. The potential for abuse by over zealous police officers should scare ALL computer users.. Where does it stop? If a network IS a legal excuse to search beyond the living space of the person accused of wrong doing, consider this.... technically,when you connect to your Internet Service Provider you ARE connecting to a network. Prehaps it is time to demand rational guidelines for these searches....and to demand that as much effort go into investigating "evidence" underlying the search warrants for computer network searches as is now required prior to a drug search.

My own discovery in all of this was that you no longer have to be guilty of wrong doing to wake up to a police invasion of your home or business. You would have more rights if you were trafficking hard drugs than you do by being a law abiding computer user. The bottom line is, as a basic computer user, no one cares about your rights.

@Squirrel Civil rights are created by legislation. They can be likewise uncreated. The rights secured in Declarations of RIghts are fundamendal rights, rights that governments are constituted to secure, rights endowed by the Creator, rights secured by constituted government from being abridged, infringed, denied or disparaged by private or public men. Like legislators.

So, how did our constituted rights deteriorate into mere civil rights ?

Date: Sun May 31 1998 01:10
mozel (@Ron) ID#153102:

The only Financial Asset that is not debt today is a Bond that is securitized by something tangible like a railroad car.

Look at it from this angle. The greenback is a Note. A Note is a promise to pay. A promise to pay is a debt instrument. There is nothing anywhere in the banking system that is other than a Promise To Pay. All stocks are denominated in Promises to Pay. All unsecuritized bonds are Promises to Pay denominated in Promises to Pay.

It's a terrorist system. The only glue holding it together is the gun and the badge that demands that you accept the Promise to Pay as compensation regardless of the creditworthiness or trustworthiness of the Promiser.

Date: Sun May 31 1998 00:36
mozel (@Socialist Yes ? Tyranny No ?) ID#153102:

If "public policy" relects your views more or less, it will never seem tyrannical. So, the wheel of socialism has to roll forward and squash most everyone's rights at least once before most people get the picture.

Many never do. The saying "You must break eggs to make an omelet" is a permanent mental fixture with these. They are invariably people who never had an egg in their whole life.

It takes a belief in the validity of your own reason and private thinking to hold the statement "When the rights of one are trampled, all are bruised" as a matter of conviction.

Tyrants and tyrannical forms of government are, therefore, always enemies of reason and promoters of slogan. [ This message has been brought to you by the Ad Council. ( Not ) ]

Date: Sun May 31 1998 00:16
mozel (@Financial Assets) ID#153102:

People seem unable to grasp the significance of the statement, "You cannot ever pay debt with debt". It goes right past their intake valves.

We talk glibly about the Big Lie. It never crosses our minds that we are victioms of one ourselves.

For some reason, the word money is on the positive side of the thinking ledger. So, regardless of how many times you tell people, the money is debt, it never registers. "The money" never moves from the positive to the negative side in the thinking ledger. It is too monstrous. The thought, the consequences, are just too monstrous to consider. That is the secret of the genuine Big Lie. It can't be faced.

But, the truth is all financial assets are just derivatives of debt and no better than debt. All of the postives are fundamentally negatives. All of the labor that was expended in acquiring those "assets of debt" was stolen by fraud. Financial assets are literally worth less than zero. It is the Big Lie that makes us think or believe otherwise.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 18:08
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

No. I guess Bart is the collector. I take it as a high compliment that you think of my posts as worthy of the company of fish. You may not know Herbert Hoover once said, "All men are equal before fish."

Date: Sat May 30 1998 17:34
mozel (@ERLE) ID#153102:

Well, I sure appreciate the thought.

Actully, I have never been to Wisconsin. But it comes highly rated - this time of year.

Although I admit to riding, metaphorically, in the ssm, I haven't been blowing smoke posting here. And I've got a lot of things yet to do. So, if my posts drop off, you'll know why. But, I regret missing out on the occasion.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 16:17
mozel (@ERLE) ID#153102:

Better bitter than blinkered.

But, I'm not bitter. However, I do know they are playing with real bullets that my labor payed for.

I've enjoyed your posts. You are a more able man than I.

Maybe I'll ask someone to write.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 15:55
mozel (@blooper SPREADER OF NONSENSE.) ID#153102:

Date: Sat May 30 1998 15:48
mozel (@Tom) ID#153102:

ALL JD's ( lawyers and attorneys ) are guilty of constructive fraud. They are all guilty by participation. NONE OF THEM advise their "clients" ( A.K.A. suckers ) of what an attorney cannot do that must be done by a man himself. NONE OF THEM have told the people. They are what 6Pak calls Tricksters. And they are all battening themselves as officers of the court. The Bar is a Monopoly in Restraint of Liberty and Justice. The Bar is a Monopoly of Government. Attorneys always were and always will be a plague preying upon Freemen.

Of these things I know. Firsthand. Close up and personal.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 15:34
mozel (@blooper) ID#153102:

Soon the American people will beg their masters for a warm bed and a hot meal. Demanding is disobedience.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 15:16
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Those who say there cannot be a New World Order overlook the obvious fact that all fiat currency governments are united in tyranny on the need to tax to pay the usurer and on the need to keep up the illusion that printed paper is money.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 15:08
mozel (@LGB) ID#153102:

Silver is a base metal ? Did you not want to answer the question or could you really not understand it ?

Date: Sat May 30 1998 14:50
mozel (@LGB) ID#153102:

What are some good base metal coins that could become the hiding place for worthy coins ?

Date: Sat May 30 1998 14:08
mozel (@blooper) ID#153102:

Wait for the spike downward. ( Which may be until your next life ) .

Date: Sat May 30 1998 14:04
mozel (@Squirrel ?? Go chatter from another branch if you like.) ID#153102:

Date: Sat May 30 1998 13:51
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

I stand on the shoulders of giants. I pass a torch I did not light, but only tend. I know because someone cared to lead me forth. Like you. I see because I have been shown. And I show as I am able. But, now I issue warnings that good men may preserve themselves for better days. I am in the company of scouts.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 13:39
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Gold coin is Freedom. How can you separate Gold from Politics ? What is more important to know: which way the market will go or that the market will not be open at all ?

Gold and silver coin are in the Constitution, but they are not among us. The government seized the gold. They have robbed us of our heritage. The Constitution is dead for all but the usurious elite who feed upon its rotten carcass and spew paper.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 13:32
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

The Bridge to the Twenty-First Century will be made of steel and steal.

Steel for the cages to hold Patriots. Steal to batten the oppressors and their BENEFICIARIES.

There will be Emergency in 2000. There will be NO ELECTION in 2000.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 13:10
mozel (@Read & Heed) ID#153102:

The national security camp guards are waiting for arrivals. You can find the camps if you dare to look for 'em.

FEMA is meeting with its clones in the States. This from the local newspaper.

The Executive Orders are written in HANDWRITING ON THE WALL.

The other two branches of government will stand and watch while the Commander In Chief acts as they always have. Lincoln, Destroyer of a Nation, showed how to do it. ( His arrest order for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was always in his top desk drawer, ) Hell, the Army is the only thing standing between the attorneys that infest the land and the hanging they deserve.

This is not rule of law though they will call it legal. This is rule of man over man with incomprehensible reams of regulations as their tool. They will rule for the greater good of society. All the EJ's with brains dressed in short pants will justify them. There will be a lot of sharing and caring. At the expense of those who prepared and saved as usual. The curtain is coming down. The lights are going out. Markets will be black. Managed trade and managed commerce under strict control and regulation are coming this way from Europe. There will be World Order, world control of capital, and world slavery to usury and fiat paper. And it will be told to you as the best thing since sliced bread.

He who knows when to run away lives to fight another day.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 11:35
mozel (@Cherokee) ID#153102:

Honored to have a seat on the ssm. Glad you're back to post.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 10:57
mozel (@Cherokee) ID#153102:

And the landscape is filled with peopleo who think three branches of government can't snuff liberty as effectively as one branch - even when all three branches are occupied by the same malfeasors - attorneys.

The work of destruction has been going on in earnest for seventy years. After the aborted Nixon coup, it has accelerated. The state of learning is every bit as bad as you say.

What are you going to do to help people who think green printed paper is money ?

Date: Sat May 30 1998 10:41
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

I suspect that Swiss politicians are under the same pressure as U.S.

"The Swiss franc is "too high" in the opinion of the Swiss manufacturers and exporters. They can not compete in a floating currency world where devaluations make the products of others cheaper. The same complaint is made by U.S. manufacturers, especially auto, who are complaining about the "too high" dollar. Of course U.S. and Swiss citizens are proud of their strong currency, it allows them to by more at deflated import prices. Floating exchange rates are doomed. These political pressures will continue to spiral down all currencies to worthlessness. Deflation is an absolute sure thing. Worldwide depression is an absolute sure thing. The only survivors will be gold and silver holders"

I'm with you on this down to the last sentence. I think the caring, sharing people with their hands on the levers of legal use of force will expand Electronics Benefit Transfer, which will be the suriviving form of Legal Tender for domestic transactions, and they will send their armed mercenaries out to collect people and things and to enforce acceptance of the EBT. This will be a joint federal-state-local exercise of "Federalism" as spelled out in the President's E.O. issued in Birmingham England.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 03:45
mozel (@Who Will Be Denounced) ID#153102:

for causing the coming troubles ?

Who else but speculators ? Irresponsible profiteers ? Those uncaring, unsharing robber barons.

But who will be detained in national security camps. For sure, the Farrakan blacks will be among the first.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 02:08
mozel (@Tom @EJ) ID#153102:

Tom Well done Post. Hope F* will read and heed.

@EJ "The idea of gold is that it is akin to property, a kind of portable property. It is a resiliant store of wealth. The price of property may rise and fall, but it never becomes worthless, as is the case with gold.

Its value rises and falls in relation to the ratio of perceived risk to profit opportunity of paper assets."

I think perhaps the original utility of gold was as a kind of portable land. Like land, gold does not decay or rust or waste away with the passage of time. Unlike land, though, gold is not fruitful. The priests of Baal by usury made gold seem fruitful. But the seeming fruit produced by usury with gold bears a poison that kills the tree of liberty and accumulates a fatal taint in the blood of commerce.

The War on Gold has been lost on the international stage. It has proved irreplaceable as a pledge, a bond for performance. The War on Gold has been won by the USG on the domestic stage. The greatest objection to gold among Americans is that it doesn't pay interest. The perceived risk that interest rates will not outpace the devaluation of the paper would cause gold to rise relative to the paper in a freely traded market. The American people are fed statistics and believe them; but governments and people overseas are not so easily deceived.

Gold has always been a commodity in the sense that it is a substance. The Numbers minted onto gold in the end have no more relevance than the Numbers printed onto paper.

Date: Sat May 30 1998 01:06
mozel (@Seizing Funds from The Currency Black Market) ID#153102:

reminds me of the stories out of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I predict more markets will be black in the future than ever before as we walk together into the long night.

What else but the excesses of uncontrolled, feral markets will be responsible for the coming trouble ? What else but uncontrolled global flows of "capital". The very best stories for scaring are ghost stories. And few ghosts have had such a long life as the Ghost of Capitalism. Isn't the solution obvious: Order. World Order. New World Order.

Date: Fri May 29 1998 23:00
mozel (@Hardcase) ID#153102:

And now we know why Belize rhymes with Disease. Thanks for your post.

Until people are prepared to fight for the right to honest gold coin money, then they will be paid in military scrip and all their "reform movements" will be led from mirage to mirage by attorneys and bankers. They still promote the "work ethic". What happened to the "pay ethic" ? ( Sorry if the insensitivity in that question offended ? )

I read the posts about inflation, deflation, recession, return on investment in Notes, capitalization with Notes for Nothing ... I get the distinct impression people are mentally lost and running in circles. Keynes was so right. Not one in a million will figure it out. Debt for currency has got to be the greatest creator of utter confusion since the Tower of Babel. And, hey, call me a televangelist if you will, but it is a recorded and archelogical fact that usury was the practice of the priests of Baal. It says "In God We Trust" on the greenback and since it's founded on interest on bonds, it seems evident to me the trusted god there is Baal. It couldn't be the unseen God of Moses who said don't practice usury, could it ? Well, I don't want to offend the godless, the heathen, the pagan, or the apostate with insensitivity, so I propose they do a science experiment in the privacy of their homes with the formula of 10 for 11. Just to see how many different ways it comes out.

If you think you know the game here, Hardcase, keep your eyes peeled because I think the rules are going to change. The two Presidents who took this noble Great Experiment into the celler this far were both lawyers: Lincoln and FDR. And Clinton is a lawyer, too.

Date: Fri May 29 1998 19:01
mozel (@Retired_Soldier @gagnrad) ID#153102:

Do you have an agreement with The Bank recorded on your signature card where you deposit your Notes and does that agreement make you subject to all the Rules and Regulations of The Bank ? Is The Bank governed by the Constitution and laws of the United States ? If not, then are you not already governed by another International Sovereign ?

When the President of the United States said "we have no choice but to impose sanctions", for whom was he performing the role of law-enforcer ?

Are persons who have a legal duty to Interpol allowed to subordinate that duty to any national duty ? No. Do you know all law-enforcement in the United States has a legal duty to Interpol by Treaty ? Are officers of the Unites States Army who serve under United Nations command required to expatriate ? Think long and hard on that before you reply.

When so many like Farfel say another digital/paper "currency" shall replace this one with no grasp of the consequences of such a declaration, which amounts to a declaration of dependance, only Frostiches will not foresee what is coming to fruition.

Date: Fri May 29 1998 18:44
mozel (@There is only one World Bank) ID#153102:

Date: Fri May 29 1998 17:44
mozel (@AragornIII @Silverbaron @JohnD) ID#153102:

AragornIII & Silverbaron The Notes are numbered so that they can be accounted for. Without numbering, there is no accounting. They are actually accounted against the issuing Reserve Bank when they are destroyed because they have deteriorated to a no longer in USEABLE condition.

You do not hold the note. It was an error for me to use the phrase holder in due course. For someone to be the holder of a note, some else must assign or endorse the note to them. There are two signatures on an FRN: 1. The Secretary of the Treasury and 2. The Treasurer of the United States.

It is important to know that Corporations can only act by Seal. There are also three Seals on a Note. 1. The Great Seal of the United States on one side and 2. The Seal of the Department of the Treasury and 3. The Seal of the issuing Federal Reserve Bank on the other side.

The word owner was corrupted in law post-FDR. There are now equitable owners, legal owners, lawful owners, beneficial owners, and allodial owners. And, I don't think that's a comprehensive listing. By law, the USER of an FRN has certain ( amendable ) legal rights but in no way do they add up to what people mean when they say, "I worked and paid for it and I own it."

The Note is an obligation, for what, to whom, and on what terms are buried in Statute and in Treaties. But from what I have seen, I'm reasonably sure the legal owner of the Note is The Bank.

@JohnD Is it possible someone wants to be able to report to someone, "Mission accomplished" ?

Date: Fri May 29 1998 14:12
mozel (@All Who Would Hear) ID#153102:

The two executives orders I posted will lead to life-altering consequences in or before Y2K. The first subordinates all agencies including DOD to FEMA for the purposes of the Order which are all encompassing. The second speaks to the legal and political boundaries for New America. Naturally, a new order could refine those boundaries.

Y2K is going to be a political event. Regardless of the technology issues. The technological breakdown is opportunity. If enough things don't break by themselves, those who are going to seize this Emergency as an opportunity will secretly break them. The IRS cannot be ready for Y2K. Do you think the federals will lay down their arms ? FEMA can commandeer anything and anybody. Draw your own conclusions.

When FDR seized gold and outlawed gold and suborned the States into treason and gave the people greenbacks to USE, he forever changed the relationship between the governed and the governing in this nation. The most important insight I have had while posting here is the realization that the only parties which have a right of property in notes issued as debt currency are the borrower and the lender. The USER has none. I said you were a holder in due course. That was an error. You are merely a USER of greenbacks by permission of the lender and the borrower and only by the rules and regulations which DO NOT EVEN HAVE TO BE PUBLISHED.

In plain terms you have no right to what you call your money. You may only USE what you are permitted to USE. You don't own it.

In simple language, you are slave labor for the State. Very few readers on this site have mentally assented to the truth of this statement. Either their chains rest easy on them or they are reading it as my opinion, I suppose, and not as a QED from the legal facts. If any group should grasp these conclusions, it would be goldbugs. The fact so few have grasped them leads me to the inescapable conclusion that Americans at large will not grasp them for years, if ever. The governors fully understand the new power in their hands now that the people have no honest money that they actually own. The governed are clueless. In New America those who obey will be fed.

Date: Fri May 29 1998 13:06
mozel (@Retired_Soldier) ID#153102:

I didn't take you to raise. Look the Executive Orders up yourself if you want to know anything more than what your local officer in command tells you. They are issued by "Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States".

I'm just putting up roadsigns for the civilians who have eyes to read and minds with which to think. None of this really relates to soldiers as they are under orders.

Date: Fri May 29 1998 12:39
mozel (@New America) ID#153102:

Executive Orders
FEDERALISM
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
( Birmingham, England )

For Immediate Release

May 14, 1998
EXECUTIVE ORDER
FEDERALISM

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United states of America, and in order to guarantee the division of governmental responsibilities, embodied in the Constitution, between the Federal Government and the States that was intended by the Framers and application of those principles by the Executive departments and agencies in the formulation and implementation of policies, it is hereby ordered as follows:

[Here follows the guidelines for the governance of New America. This E.O. was not perhaps issued in England by coincidence. As there is a devious legal purpose served in the USG secretly acknowledging a debt to the Crown.]

Date: Fri May 29 1998 12:26
mozel (@Into The Night) ID#153102:

For Immediate Release June 6, 1994
EXECUTIVE ORDER
NATIONAL DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended ( 64 Stat. 798; 50 U.S.C. App. 2061, et seq. ) , and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

[going off the chart.]

Date: Thu May 28 1998 23:36
mozel (@Winston) ID#153102:

Belize has a lot going for it by your report.

Please post the results of your findings.

I think there are gold projects underway there actually.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 19:30
mozel (@Silverbaron) ID#153102:

I will further examine Belize.

Even though it rhymes with Disease.

Walk, don't run.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 19:11
mozel (@MrMick) ID#153102:

I do not share your homogeonized view of the world. And I don't think you read the Argentine press release. But, I don't know your motive and don't need to. Hie thee to Belize if you please.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 18:50
mozel (@Midas & Other Long Suffering Goldists @Hardcase) ID#153102:

Midas et. al. Patience. Not Reason, Not Hope. Simple Patience.

Hardcase Readers such as yourself are much appreciated.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 18:22
mozel (@AragonIII @Winston) ID#153102:

Aragorn Well, you're right there. Two plus two does equal four. ( Tipping the beer filled mug ! )

Winston Hadn't thought about Belize. Make the case.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 15:20
mozel (@blooper) ID#153102:

Wait for the break to the downside. ( Maybe til your next life. )

Date: Thu May 28 1998 15:15
mozel (@Hardcase @MrMick) ID#153102:

Hardcase: Oh, Loquacious One, methinks thee art guilty of the sin thee denounces. ( P.S. Stop sending my posts to yer friends if yer gonna' dog me. )

MrMick The Cape: R.S.A. highly recommended

Grenada

Costa Rica. Welcomes Americans. Has private Banks.

Argentina. Many European immigrants there in colonies. Euro-Gold connection. Already burned out on socialism in depth. Recommended by Soros and Stallone. A one time destination for expatriate American friends of liberty driven from their homeland by Devils like Ambrose Bierce.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 13:40
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Dreaming is vastly overrated.

It's always dark on the far side of the moon. If you were born there, you would have to migrate to get some light in your life.

I'm just not going to sit around in the Rockies and wait for a moon shift while reading science fiction and hiding from FEMA.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 13:19
mozel (@Taking Bids on 1913 Shanghai Railway Bond Paying 7.5%) ID#153102:

Denominated in.... what was that currency called anyway ?

Date: Thu May 28 1998 13:05
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Inter-planetary yammer is escapism, fiction science plain and simple.

We are biologically what we are. The grant applications of physicists don't interest me. I'll wait for a demonstration by the biologists before paying attention or money.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 12:23
mozel (@DEJ) ID#153102:

High interest = Usury. That is a lot more than Gold's problem.

Lawyers as attorneys and usury came into American law together. Today lawyers perform the same function that they did in Roman Judea. They work for The Bank.

Since knowledge of a higher moral law is derided and out of fashion among mankind, only fear of default by the usurious borrower who lends for a living will drive Americans to gold. Americans have put their faith in the power of Science and the power of government with Science as its tool. It will take something tangible and personal to shake that faith. It's a short step from fear to panic. Not much of a market window there, I'd say.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 12:04
mozel (@MrMick) ID#153102:

My statement was predicated, not absoloute. But, I perceive a very high probability the predicates will occur for the reasons previously stated.

I'd like to hear opinions in answer to your question myself. I mentioned some possible destinations, but I'd like ideas from other Americans who post here who would not want to live in New America.

Date: Thu May 28 1998 11:28
mozel (@Gianni @Squirrel) ID#153102:

Every aspirant to the office of President has wet dreams about the word Emergency.

Because, unlike the ignoranti that elect them, they know the power vested in the office of the President by Emergency by law. A place in History's Sun beckons the ambitious.

Clinton has given FEMA a new and expanded mission statement which I posted the key section from. He has drafted the necessary Executive Orders. He has appointed a commission on Y2K so that he can be officially notified by it of an imminent Emergency. He has done his homework and has his ducks in a row.

There is no need to wonder about it. Just plan for it.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 23:13
mozel (@Gollum @crazytimes) ID#153102:

Gollum Great explanation of the irreducible instability in the fiat currency scheme. Scary to follow the thoughts to their logical conclusion, isn't it ?

crazytimes It is the evil engine of usury which has, by its inexorable demand to be fed more and more, disrupted the way of life that nourished both the knowledge and ideals necessary for liberty and the culture grieved for by Rilke and your father. The same demon in demoncracy destroyed them both.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 22:36
mozel (@Argent) ID#153102:

The federal government is the most powerful organization on earth. It is pure folly to think this organization will not function during Y2K especially after you read the power that can be authorized to FEMA with a few strokes of a pen. It may take them a few years to get out in the boonies where Squirrel is. But, for most, FEMA will be in their face early on in the Y2K Emergency and ever more thereafter.

I always felt Solzenitzen ( sp ) was a man of insight. One thing that comes through in his accounts of life in the soviet union is that the system could not have functioned at all without believers. You see, it is people with ideals who matter. Most people are content to live mostly in the flesh and have fun. I guess to them idealists are and always have been immature. Americans have enjoyed over 200 years of freedom from the inspired efforts of some idealists. Diminishing freedom, to be sure, as the cynics and skeptics pared away at the ideals. But, there are now and for the last seventy years New Idealists with their hands on the levers of power. They have a System in place now. When they have run the country into the ground like the communists did to Russia, perhaps there will be a rebirth of freedom on this continent. But, realistically, I fear you can say of most of the people today that they will not know what they have to lose until it's gone. There are, after all, sound reasons why so many tyrants have prospered throughout history.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 22:07
mozel (@servhard) ID#153102:

Ah, yes, Carpe Diem.

I didn't think you were advertising or promoting the Vest. The disparity between the resources supporting the Vest and the resources of the typical accused just struck me; so I posed a question. There really is a phenomenal amount of resources required by that Vest.

All I recall about the Bremen site conversation, I regret to say, is some expressions of solidarity between the German sponsors and a convicted Sioux from the showdown at Pine Ridge.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 21:22
mozel (@pyramid) ID#153102:

You're welcome.

I guess I knew everything I've posted here beforehand, but I've never expressed it before. And the stimulus of other posts and posted stories has led to my connecting new dots. The fact all greenbacks are owned by the federal government and that the holders in due course are merely allowed to USE them according to rules and regulations was a new insight for me. In retrospect it's perfectly obvious and I wonder I never saw it clearly before. I suppose like everyone else, since I worked for them, I figured the greenbacks were my money.

If they impeach Clinton, it might alter the situation. But all the power and apparatus will still be intact. Probably just a change of personality not a change of course.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 19:58
mozel (@Servhard) ID#153102:

When you are the accused and the prosecution places your image at the crime scene as recorded by the Vest and plays it for the jury, will you be able to afford your own production to mount a digital defense ?

Date: Wed May 27 1998 19:33
mozel (@gagnrad) ID#153102:

There is no connection I see between gold jewelry and freedom.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 19:28
mozel (@AragornIII) ID#153102:

Well, it just finally got through to me that all those people who think you are crazy for saying gold coin is money are going to think the government has just locked up a crazy when they lock you up. And likewise for all those people who think the ideals of the Founders are immature ideals unfit for the modern world.

I'm still saying "The Reds are coming; the Reds are coming." I just don't think anybody will show up at Concord Bridge to stop them. It only takes a couple of generations to reduce the transmission of parole cultural knowledge to a trickle like it is today. And when the common law was lost, it was all over. Because the average person will just never figure out what happened. Especially not after the internet is sanitized in New America.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 18:53
mozel (@Argent @Parole Knowledge ) ID#153102:

Argent, the typical American citizen has no idea gold coin is money. The USG has no intention of allowing that to change. The propaganda machine will run full time. The President will talk lies with a sharing caring tone and demeanor about the safety of "your money" meaning the greenbacks which the government actually owns and the citizen is only allowed to USE within the prescribed rules and regulations. The parole knowledge transmitted in cultures from father to son has been disrupted for too many generations. It only exists in a minority now who are aliens in the land of their forefathers. I am personally making no assumptions that it can ever be restored in my lifetime. I foresee FEMA moving people to Electronics Benefit Transfer during Y2K disruption and allocating resources via EBT. Dependance will be rewarded; Independance will be obstructed or even forbidden. One card will thereafter access all funds of whatever source and description. They have already been working on this for some time. I think a deal was made so that both Master Card and Visa could participate in the one card scheme. On the first go around one of them was left out and complained. People who think they own greenbacks and that greenbacks are money will be none the wiser in New America.

The "genuine public-private partnership" which Clinton has tasked FEMA to be prepared to implement and which he spoke to the Naval cadets about will involve corporate stock somehow and social security and medical care. The USG system will converge with the Red Chinese system where Red Chips are a feature.

Only a mere handful of the American people will perceive the direction of things. The vast majority will be in shock. The USG will create and magnify the sense of chaos and disorder. It will be a replay of FDR's Democratic Socialist Revolution carrying it further toward full press socialism. Clinton has all the legal authority he needs to lock up any opposition as "terrorists" or "conspirators". If you ever hear about these arrests, it will be years and years later. There will be a few well publicized show trials to intimidate the populace. The major media will play the same role it does today. FEMA will see to it the WSJ does not get resources to publish unless it plays ball. Like the last Emergency, this New Emergency will never end. It will be a permanent feature of New America.

A goldbug does not belong in New America. That's my assessment.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 18:23
mozel (@AragornIII) ID#153102:

Glad you liked my tale of chip investment.

The post concluding Got Freedom ? had a darned serious message for those who comprehend these times.

The "Consequences of Retreat" and like posting on the War on Gold was done around the time of ANOTHER's last posts here.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 18:02
mozel (@AragornIII) ID#153102:

Yes, my conclusions were in some posts published around the time of one I titled "Consequences of Retreat". It's the reason the USG has lost the War on Gold.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 17:39
mozel (@vronsky @taxpayer's hard earned money) ID#153102:

Did you think my posts on Ownership & Rude Awakening & the one to sharefin lat night were theoretical ? It's not their, the "taxpayer's" money. They just have the USE of it. The FRN has this advantage over gold money: it's easier to USE because of force of law and the facilities of The Bank being fully behind it. Gold money has this advantage over the FRN: you OWN it.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 15:16
mozel (@Retired_Soldier @Jack) ID#153102:

How do you plan to get your gold out of the USA ?

@Jack Yes, they herd them to the Bond Corral.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 12:05
mozel (@vronsky) ID#153102:

Godd Standard ? A phrase that probably never means the same thing to the speaker as to the hearer of it.

When gold goes up in $US, the $US is devaluing. When the $US and gold go up together, what is happening to all other fiat paper ? Where will it go if it is liquid ?

Somehow I just can't picture the guy whose hero is FDR taking the US back toward capitalism.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 11:33
mozel (@Ownership) ID#153102:

Are the $US greenbacks in your pocket and in your account actually your "money". Believe it or not, they aren't. They are like your car. If you keep it inspected and it passes inspection and keep all the necessary decals on it and keep it registered and keep any fines levied against it paid up to date, then you may USE it according to the published rules and regulations.

It's exactly the same situation with the $USgreenback. You may USE it within the rules and regulations of The Bank and only within the rules and regulations of The Bank. That's why too much cash is a crime, making "structured" deposits is a crime, "laundering" is a crime, and not reporting certain transactions with greenbacks is a crime. Also, burning it is a crime. None of these could be a crime if the greenbacks in your account and in your pocket were actually your property.

When people cannot get "their money" out of The Bank, their true legal situation may finally dawn on them. That it's not "their money" after all.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 11:15
mozel (@Convergence) ID#153102:

Armstrong: Greenback and Gold will rise together

Dines: Strong Greenback and Rise in Gold

ANOTHER: when the Greenback and Gold rise together, the match is moving toward the paper

Date: Wed May 27 1998 05:00
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

You probably have an agreement with The Bank just like Americans. It could be purely statuatory in a Crown country and only visible to the judge and attorneys because people usually don't read the law they live under, but take hearsay from attorneys and bureaucrats.

None of this debt currency belongs to the people who have it on account at a bank or in their pocket. It all belongs to the government. I know that seems incredible, but thinking it through, it is the only possibility. You are merely the holder in due course of a note. Gold coin on the other hand is what is known as personalty or chattel in the law. You do own that.

These debt currencies are all a fraud. There is no wealth stored in them. Merely debt. All that labor, decades of it, has been stolen by government. Banks, insurance, the whole thing is a fraud. Fiat is tyranny, not law or rule of law. The paper is legal robbery. The people have been legally robbed of their labor.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 04:37
mozel (@Fight Report) ID#153102:

But why did the reporter censor the part where Rocky jumped up and down on Farley's chest ?

Date: Wed May 27 1998 03:52
mozel (@Rude Awakenings) ID#153102:

The writer of the following account is under some misconceptions common to Americans.

The first misconception is that there is a contract with the local bank. As dutiful readers of my posts know, the bank signature card obliges you to obey the rules and regulations of The Bank. This agreement with The Bank makes any purported contract with a customer moot.

The second misconception is that the Federal Reserve Notes in your account and in your pocket are your property. They are government property. If they were not government property, there could not be a law against burning them. You get to access them, use them, etc. only with government's permission and according to the rules and regulations of The Bank.

No doubt the writer and the businessman are also under the misconceptions that they own their cars and houses.

There will be a rude awakening for the American people as they learn in the coming months the true meaning of the word FIAT.

What fun it is to live in the land of the free!

: Subject: FW: FIRST UNION BANK ROBS CUSTOMER

: Re: This is why we DON'T need biometrics in our banking system. FYI.

: May 15, 1998, a South Carolina businessman entered First Union Bank to cash a Check given him by his customer on her bank for CONTRACTED services performed by him. He presented the check and his driver's license for identification. The teller asked if he had an account there, and when the answer was 'no', he was informed he must also place his thumbprint on the check. He asked the teller to verify the check by calling his customer; reminding her of the bank's CONTRACT with their customer.

: She refused to do so, but made three other phone calls, while he waited.

: He repeated his request for honoring the check, reminding her she had his DL and his fingerprints are his personal property and not required to be given to anyone. The branch manager came to the desk and said that Richland County [deputies] were on the way. He asked to make a phone call and permission was granted before the FIVE deputies arrived. He was asked to leave by deputies while making the call ( verified by deputy in question to teller ) . Deputy removed phone from his hand, forced him out of the bank, cuffed him and took him to jail. All this in front of his wife, his three small children, who were by now crying, and all the other customers in First Union. He spent the night in jail, and lost the following day's work while in detention. All this for attempting to protect his right to privacy.

: First Union claims it is looking for fraudulent checks. Are its customers aware their accounts and check-writing are being questioned by their own bank? Are they aware their checks are being DISHONORED by THEIR bank, where their accounts are being held? Since when does any third party private business have the right to demand your personal property, your fingerprints, in order to close a business transaction for contracted services provided?

: Are we to be considered criminals because we are not regular customers of that bank?

: Is FIRST UNION aware that their PRIVATE policy is NOT LAW. There is no such LAW, and therefore violates the people's rights in South Carolina? NATION'S BANK has joined in this PRIVATE policy decision, as has the FIFTH THIRD BANKS in Ohio and Kentucky. Are these the kind of banks with which you want to do business?

: We are not the criminals, the funds in your banking facility are YOURS, not the banks and not government. We do NOT wish to be coerced into opening accounts in banks for more government intrusion. This is NOT protection of our accounts it is invasion of privacy and attempted government control..simply put, "theft" of your personal property.

: Last, we must hold law enforcement accountable for their actions. The police are "experts who have the higher knowledge of the law". Our tax dollars provide training, seminars, and all manner of classes at our expense.

: Heavy handedness, snap judgements, assault, disrespect, and arrogance should not have to be tolerated for the purpose of running "customers" through the Judicial meat market.

: This article was contributed by Mr Lee Griggs. He can be reached at lgriggs@msegroup.com

Date: Wed May 27 1998 00:55
mozel (@Getting Liquid) ID#153102:

Is what makes stock markets go down.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 00:49
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

I think you must be tired.

Your last jab was an air shot.

Equating a piece of paper promising to get gold out of the ground with gold in the hand.

Somebody is buying time by selling gold. Just my opinion.

Date: Wed May 27 1998 00:26
mozel (@Oh Blessed Fifth Wave) ID#153102:

Where I can buy more solid stuff. Thank God for paper pushers.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 23:39
mozel (@Devouring A Nation or I See Far Out) ID#153102:

In the 1930's Demoncratic Socialist Revoloution of FDR and the New Deal Congress, the federal government took The Gold, The Titles To The Cars, and The Land as pledge to The Bank for The Debt.

And now seventy years later, after going through the gold seized overseas, they are broke again. And the overtaxed "private sector" is up to its ears in private debt. All it will take is a slowdown to start a wave of foreclosures, bankruptcies, and defaults the likes of which have never been seen before. And at the very, very least Y2K is going to produce that slowdown.

Now, except for the shirt off his back, what else does the American possess that the federal government can take as pledge for New Debt ?

Stocks.

What do you call a state corporation in Red China ? A Red Chip. The corporations which the United States Government will control by pumping in liquidity with fiat paper to restart the economy will be Red, White, and Blue Chips. This will save Social Security, Save Medicare, put Americans back to work, and take the last private property in America as pledge for federal debt.

The convergence of the United States system and the Red Chinese system draweth nigh. What does the USG possess that RCG needs ? Computer technology and biomedical identification devices to track the movesment of multi-millions of Chinese. What do the Chinese have that The Bank needs. Multi-millions of new potential worshippers of Baal, untapped payers of usury.