Date: Mon May 18 1998 23:52mozel (@auric @Prometheus) ID#153102:Gosh, you do not have the right to remain silent if you have an agreement with The Bank and its rules and regulations require you to answer questions. So, if you have an agreement with The Bank, do not assume you have aby rights. How would you know anyway if you can't get a copy of the rules and regulations ?

Date: Mon May 18 1998 23:34
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:

Donal posted an article on a case that the Mexican Supreme Court agreed to hear on the issue of capitalization of interest. That there was a possibility that the Mexican Supreme Court could hold against the capitalization of interest caused a great stir on Wall Street.

" ( Cash Question ) ID#255151:

If you decide to cash your paycheck at the bank, and keep the cash, are you still required to fill out those Federal forms once the amount passes $10,000 in a year? If you were to file the forms, can you expect a visit from your friendly neighborhood G-man?"

Well, if he does show up just say you are too busy to talk. You have the right to remain silent.

But, what are the forms of which you speak ? You are not making a cash transaction.

Speaking of the Form 8300, I think it is, certain coin dealers are turning in reports when the cumulative amount of purchase exceeds $10,000. I do not think this is within the meaning of the Statute because it is not even within a careful reading of the instructions which themselves are not a substitute for reading the Statute. The instructions are not a defense either. Grocery stores are "retail outlets". Do you think grocery stores are required to keep track of your purchases and turn in a Form 8300 when you spend more than $10,00 cash for groceries in a year ? The coin people are just intimidated. Somebody is going to have to sue one to stop this unlawful reporting.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 23:02
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:

Donal posted an article on a case that the Mexican Supreme Court agreed to hear on the issue of capitalization of interest. That there was a possibility that the Mexican Supreme Court could hold against the capitalization of interest caused a great stir on Wall Street.

I think we should consider the indictment of the Mexican Banks in connection with the issue of capitalization of interest. The rules and regulations of The Bank are that interest can and shall be capitalized. The indictment of the Mexican Banks on money laundering charges is a statement saying, "No matter what the Mexican Supreme Court decides under the Constitution and laws of Mexico, these banks are going to capitalize interest if The Bank says so because the jurisdiction for the agreement is in our Courts." It will calm Wall Street.

Got an agreement with The Bank ?

Date: Mon May 18 1998 22:35mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:

Thanks for your words of appreciation.

It is self-evident that the Mexican Banks are subject to the jurisdiction of US Courts because of an agreement they entered into or their government entered into.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 21:10
mozel (@Silverfox) ID#153102:

You post about Guido and Vinny explains in a nutshell why ABX is the leader in the paper gold game. Munk is hiding behind USG and therefore unlikely to get his ass whipped.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 20:55
mozel (@High_Rise @POG Perception in US) ID#153102:

What you said about set up law cases for the purpose of getting the desired precedent in the Case Reporter is very astute. But, on anti-trust the cure is far worse than the disease. It is government or government influenced by Gates not Gates as a corporate CEO that would & could prevent alternatenet as competition to internet.

It is valid I think to look at relative price in terms of relative risk. It is said the $US is as good as gold. Actually, it is about 6% less than as good as gold right now in one market. That is the bond market. It says that a bond in $US is only 6% more risky than a gold bond. Is this a realistic assessment ? As the POG in London dropped in $US, there was an implied improvement in the riskiness of the $US. At face value the $US was about 25% less risky at the end of the down move than before. Is this a realistic assessment of risk ?

Date: Mon May 18 1998 20:23
mozel (@Gold Leases) ID#153102:

There seem to be sound reasons to suppose the gold loaned out by CB will never come back. I don't know if that is true or not because I have not read a lease. But, suppose it is true. What reason could a CB Director have for loaning out gold with at a risk it will not come back ? Is there a way a CB director or someone with authority over a CB director could covertly and discreetly profit from the gold not coming back to the bank ? Corruption seems ever so much more likely than incompetence.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 19:06
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:

Mexican Bank indictment announced in Washington. For violating the rules and regulations of The Bank ? If not, then how did Mexican Banks become subject to US jurisdiction ?

Date: Mon May 18 1998 14:59
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:

I can read a Statute. I can read an agreement.

I understand the concept of jurisdiction.

I understand private agreements are outside the Constitution.

I will not have a private agreement with an independent international entity whose rules and regulations can by the terms of the agreement infringe, abridge, deny and disparage my rights secured by law in my country.

I will not be one of theirs.

If you choose to be one of theirs, that's your affair.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 04:35
mozel (@LBMA) ID#153102:

When LBMA changed its rules to allow paper gold to trade on a par with physical, it created some disatisfied customers. For me this information from ANOTHER was quite valid and useful, whoever he is. If a man is going to market for gold, he wants gold for his tender not paper. He wants the thing not the promise. The longer this current situation exists, the more dissatified the disappointed buyers at LBMA become. It is not tolerable to operate a physical market according to these rules. The first London Gold Pool also failed. Conducting the international trade in gold in London seems to be an essential factor in the $US strategy of the Anglo-American alliance.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 04:17
mozel (@jims) ID#153102:

There is a probability of future price movement based on recent price movement that goes into option pricing as a volatility factor. The gold options are priced to reflect that, I think. The writers of options in gold, according to reports, have been very efficient at denying the call option buyers profits. Since mines are writing many of those calls, they do have supply to put into the market as expiration approaches. Especially since they can offer paper gold on a par with physical gold. Just some thoughts.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 04:00
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

The usurer always has to have an enforcer.

And when the enforcer is government, the usurer has all the moral force of law behind his wickedness.

And when the enforcer is also the client of the usurer, the result is an ever increasing burden of taxation to pay the usury. On that score this government has gone the way of Rome. And the modern mob is just as you outlined it.

As you say the concept of ten for eleven is so simple. And when it is repeated endlessly, it operates exactly like a simple principle of natural selection to an inevitable conclusion. It is very strange that it is only clear from knowledge of moral law. If it were susceptible to understanding by reason, it would be the constant study of economists. But, they are mesmerized by its magic just like the borrowers.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 03:33
mozel (@Jeil) ID#153102:

When this country gained its Independence, the evil consequences of usury and of government grants of monopoly were well known. The purpose of Independence was to be free of them. The phrase "inalienable rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is a declaration against usury, tax debt, and monopoly.

You may be interested to know that most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence paid a very heavy price for their act. Many of them lost all of their property in the War; many of them lost their lives or their health; and others lost their families. I cannot join in cynicism about motive considering these sacrifices for our freedom in the War of Independence.

But, the betrayal of the principles for which they sacrificed galls me.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 03:16
mozel (@miles) ID#153102:

Could you expand on the phrase the Euro's Orwellian impact on Europe which was in your last post ?

Date: Mon May 18 1998 03:09
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

I think the "Americans" you have in mind are those on the mold of Hawkeye , the character in Fenimore Cooper's Last of the Mohicans. Those are difficult people to conquer.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 02:28
mozel (@Gianni @The Course of Usury) ID#153102:

A debt upon which usury is practiced must be continually fed. It is a ravening maw that is never filled. Look into the causes of modern war and you will find the worship of Bael, the worship of the magic of compound interest.

The Course of Usury deceives the reasoning mind. In the beginning you might have ten farmers and one worshipper of Baal. Each of the ten borrows ten to return eleven. Nine of the ten will be more prosperous and only the tenth will enter slavery. His misfortune can be blamed on his sloth or his ill luck. The remainder will credit their hard work and clever management. When five are in slavery and five are still borrowing and expanding, those five will be even yet more prosperous. And it is this apparent rise in prosperity by which the course of usury deceives the reasoning mind.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 01:57
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

For myself, I will have no agreement with The Bank. I will be able to say "I am not one of yours."

Date: Mon May 18 1998 01:27
mozel (@Alberich @Snares Capture The Unwary) ID#153102:

I would not be surprised to learn that bank agreements in all countries which are members of the IMF and World Bank carry the stipulation either on the agreement or in Statute that the account holder agrees to abide by all the rules and regulations of The Bank.

The Bank is an independent international institution somewhat like The Crown. Would you enter into an agreement with the Crown to abide by all its rules and regulations ?

It is in difficult times that one would discover just how much was required of one by the rules and regulations of The Bank. But, it seems obvious that you are potentially foregoing for any liability to the Bank the protection afforded you by your country's bankruptcy law. And your wife and heirs could be indentured to work off any debt you had to The Bank at death as well. It seems to me assessments against your account could be made by The Bank's rules and regulations. These assessments could be based on agreements entered into between The Bank and your government. About the only protection for an account holder in this agreement are the prohibitions against contracts against public policy. That would probably prohibit barbaric rules such as body parts for debt, but would not prohibit a rule to quarter soldiers when directed by your government.

I think it should be obvious the worldwide government offensive on cash transactions is designed to drive everyone into the snares of The Bank. Perhaps we have been saying Gold is Freedom, Paper is Slavery without fully understanding the words.

Date: Mon May 18 1998 00:48
mozel (@George) ID#153102:

The broker's stipulation that you agree in advance that you have received anything they have sent stinks; however, there have probably been a lot of people whose attorneys have disputed that a margin call notice was sent out or a prospectus or the like. So, I can see a reason for the stipulation as it avoids all clients taking on the overhead of certified return receipt mail for every communication. It seems nevertheless overbroad. But, if you were a broker who had been burned by a client who claimed never to have received a margin call notice, you might not agree.

Do not confuse an agreement with a brokerage business with an agreement with an institution having independent international standing, The Bank.

It's more like you made a private agreement with the Crown or The People's Republic of China which is enforceable in your home country by your home country's courts.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 18:14
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:

On what grounds can you maintain that the terms of your agreement with The Bank were not disclosed ? Go and read the admissions you subscribed to with your signature. The plea that it was a Frostrich that signed that and not I will not hold water.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 18:11
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

"And your idea of local IMF WORLD BANK branches is haunting to say the least."

Find and read the Statuatory History of Deep Do Do that I posted. Understand the local IMF WORLD BANK branches have been here since the founding of IMF and World Bank.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 18:00
mozel (@Alberich & Allen) ID#153102:

Think long and hard on this. You entered your agreement with The Bank voluntarily. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand that your rights and obligations are spelled out in the agreement and that they are outside the Constitution.

Think of yourself as a Babylonian farmer who went to the Temple of Baal and entered an agreement with a priest. That is precisely your legal situation. And the governemt is established to enforce agreements and will enforce them.

The Bank is The World Bank and whatever else is designated by the Secretary of the Treasury in his regulations. If you had read my post on the Statuatory History of Deep Do Do, you would have read it there in the statute.

Your local bank is a licensee of the federal government. The government regulates the opening of accounts. The Statutes are part of the agreement. It is not a common-law contract. It is a stipulated agreement of the Roman civil law type.

If you don't want to give up your Freedom to be immune from the rules and regulations of The Bank, then do not bank on those terms. Rescind your application and cancel your account.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 14:15
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:

If nothing else is functioning in Y2K, The Bank will be functioning.

If you have not read my posts from earlier today, the full import of this statement is going to be lost on you.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 13:35
mozel (@SDR) ID#153102:

Nobody can force you to open a bank account.

But if you sign a Bank signature card, they can force you to do anything in the rules and regulations of The Bank.

What is more important to you ? Banking on those terms or your Freedom ?

Date: Sun May 17 1998 13:30
mozel (@During The Campaign) ID#153102:

Did not Clinton make the statement that you cannot be an attorney in this country without working for The Bank ?

Everybody laughed. Was it a joke ? Or were the people put on notice ?

Date: Sun May 17 1998 13:19
mozel (@You May Want To Understand This) ID#153102:

The agreement you made with The Bank is outside the Constitution. It is a private agreement. It is non-constitutional. You cannot appeal for constitutional protection of your rights to prevent enforcement on you of the rules and regulations of The Bank. You agreed to abide by them.

Think long and hard on this.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 13:10
mozel (@Canadian Currency Law Changes) ID#153102:

`This could be a major step forward in meeting our international commitments. I am committed to introducing legislation as soon as possible.' Solicitor-General Andy Scott

To whom were those international committments made ? Was it to The Bank ?

You think you are not part of organized crime. Doesn't matter. It is only what they think when they apply the law that matters.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 12:57
mozel (@ROR) ID#153102:

I think all of us who have Bank signature cards on file should be more concerned about what we have willingly agreed to than about fictive scenarios. Can you say today, "I am not one of yours" ?

Date: Sun May 17 1998 12:44
mozel (@Question) ID#153102:

Do the rules and regulations of The Bank that you agreed to abide by on your bank signature card stipulate that the Directors of The Bank can require you to quarter soldiers ?

Do the rules and regulations of The Bank that you agreed to abide by on your bank signature card stipulate that it is not necessary for The Directors of The Bank to notify you of changes to the rules and regulations for them to have full and legal effect ?

Who or what entity is The Bank ? ( Hint: Look in the regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury according to which all banks operate in America and to the Acts of Congress authorizing them. )

Date: Sun May 17 1998 12:17
mozel (@grant) ID#153102:

Clinton is no different than Lincoln or or TR or FDR or Nixon.

The Constitution was both their source of power and a limit on their power. And all of them were aggrandizing Presidents.

Clinton's legal bills are certainly awfully big for somebody who you say ignores the Constitution.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 12:09
mozel (@Donald @ROR) ID#153102:

Donald Usury is contrary to the Christian religion. And common-law. Usurious agreements are entered into in America under commercial law ( Uniform Commercial Code ) or statute of a state legislature modifying the common-law. So, the enforced law does not conform to the revealed moral law. There are just hardly any practicing Christians around. Everyone is worshipping in the temples of Baal, the god of usury, and Mammon, the god of money.

Mexican case is about capitalizing interest, not about usury per se.

ROR Constitution was amended after FDR to limit the consecutive terms of a person to the office of President to two.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 11:51
mozel (@grant) ID#153102:

The Constitution provides the schedule by which offices shall be filled by regular elections. A person in office does not have an option. Their term in office expires and their authority in office expires with their term. If there are no elections, the offices are empty. Without elected, lawful authority in office, delegation of authority is not possible and the burareacracy grinds to a halt.

Just as the socialist legislation of FDR and the New Deal Congress prevented the country from coming out of the Depression, offical directives during any Y2K emergency are certain to prolong it. Emergency and Necessity have always been the plea and justification of Tyrants and Usurpers and always will be.

Clinton made a delegation of authority to FEMA by Executive Order that truly is a cause for concern.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 11:21
mozel (@Dialtone In Y2K) ID#153102:

If there is disruption in an area and you need any dialtone, go to the mayor. Dialtone will be rationed. This has been in place for more than twenty years. You might want to tell your distant friends and family about it so they won't worry unnecessarily if your phone is out.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 10:55
mozel (@On The Subject of Banks) ID#153102:

"The problem with a bank account is NOT as much the SSN as it is the signature card. Signing your name on the signature card MAKES YOU LIABLE. Just READ it...

I know that they are making even more of an effort to hide this though.

The last time I helped a friend of mine open a bank account, when I read the signature card, all it said was that you had read the 'Welcome to Regions Bank' pamphlet that the person who opened the account for you gave you. Well, upon reading this pamphlet, which appears to simply be filled with innocuous information about the different kinds of accounts offered by the Bank, you find, buried in the 3rd or 4th to last paragraph ( of 30 or 40 ) , a very telling paragraph stating that:

a ) You agree to be bound by all the rules and regulations of The Bank, and that not only does it NOT matter if you have read them, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE THEM TO YOU."

Question 1: Who or what is the entity named "The Bank" ? ( Could it be The World Bank ? )

Question 2: Can you indenture yourself ?

Question 3: Did you agree to pay damages to The Bank for words or actions contrary to public policy? ( answer: you don't know. )

Date: Sun May 17 1998 04:03
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:

Well, they could pace around their offices in panic, but they still couldn't sell.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 03:58
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:

Gold Reserves. To reduce the cost of using Euro as a reserve currency. It would figure in those capital ratios that BIS issues. The plain talk on this is that it will provide a better credit rating than just reserves of $US. Reserve currency is now a matter of settlement risk management. No substitute for gold as pledge. But, because the Euro has gold reserves, countries holding the Euro as reserve would have their settlement risk indemnified to a degree by their Euro holdings. Very important in oil transactions, I believe. BIS assesses the risk on a CB by CB basis, makes the capital ratios, etc.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 03:48
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:

Perhaps. If he wants to, AG can prevent mutual funds from selling stock. The Credit Control Act gave him power over all credit allocation, etc. PPT just has to make phone calls.

Rotschild really raised the ante for the Euro managers. Gold Euro coins. Open gold auctions. Lots of talk about gold among people who are being paid in paper. He is saying raise the price or else risk somebody saying give us gold money.

They could revalue gold's official price at BIS from $208 to $422 overnight. This would perhaps destroy LBMA. I think the continentals are telling the English the international gold market will be moved if it does not co-operate with the Euro managers.

One thing that they must work out is how to avoid an oil shock for America.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 03:34
mozel (@See-Saw) ID#153102:

The Euro managers are walking a tighrope with the people of Europe. They are saying the ECB will hold gold, but they want to retain the popular perception that gold is not wealth and money.

They want the Euro to have reserve status, but when the greenback loses reserve status, it will devalue their greenback holdings.

But, so what if the greenback is not really wealth anyway.

Date: Sun May 17 1998 03:19
mozel (@See-Saw) ID#153102:

The consensus is that the stock market in the United States is a bubble of overvaluation. The presumption is the managers are planning a correction without a crash.

Gold is undervalued. The presumption is the managers are planning a rise without damaging confidence in fiat paper or the popular perception that it is not wealth and money.

I think the managers of both ends of this see-saw are co-operating. But, I don't know the scenario. But, I think the common interest of managers on both sides of the Atlantic is to make more money.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 23:50mozel (@Whatif) ID#153102:

The point of the Euro is to make more money.

Trashing the US economy doesn't make anybody any money.

I think we should think in those terms.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 19:22
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

That is a very informative little tidbit.

It confirms that to an unmeasured degree the gold loans are consuming gold production in usury payment. But since everyone is doing rollovers, the gold as interest is still uncollected and the deduction of this interest on production coming to market is still not realized.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 17:55
mozel (The never-never story. EXTRA ! EXTRA ! READ ALL ABOUT IT) ID#153102:

Leland, I hope my response on the Gold Clause case was clear. You must always read a case with an eye to the status of the parties and to the jurisdiction of the law in question. Now, in answer to a question from you, an attorney could say the Supreme Court did not uphold a Gold Clause in a Contract. It's true, isn't it ?

Global conspiracy to conceal consequences of usury and fiat paper moeny from the unsuspecting public indicted. Government, Central Banks, academic Brain Trusts, corporate media, a host of others - all implicated by Special Prosecutor.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 17:24
mozel (@Leland @CB Gold Leases) ID#153102:

Leland, I hope my response on the Gold Clause case was clear. You must always read a case with an eye to the status of the parties and to the jurisdiction of the law in question. Now, in answer to a question from you, an attorney could say the Supreme Court did not uphold a Gold Clause in a Contract. It's true, isn't it ?

But, an interesting thought occurs. How would the Federal Reserve enforce a gold clause in a gold lease contract? How would any CB do so in Europe, except in Switzerland ? Was all of the gold leasing done by BIS under provisions of Swiss Law or under provisions of international Treaty Law ? I think SDRer posted a case in which the payment in gold SF was upheld. This makes me think BIS is the lender or authorized agent for the lender for all of the gold loans. This makes me wonder if a shareholder in BIS would have a right to see a gold lease agreement. Then, we would know the currency interest is to be paid in, fiat or gold.

I sure wish I had one of those lease agreements to read.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 15:31
mozel (A Comparison of Constants) ID#153102:

There is some constant involved in what we call gravity which Newton quantified with equations. Now, people will say, it's not a constant because better measuring devices detect variation. But, I say, the apple always falls. And when it doesn't, I will give up my position on the constant in gravity. Now, I think Newton showed that something is more or less measurable depending on the size of the masses involved. There is something operating in Nature there in a predictable way and the fact it is predictable is evidence of its constancy. So far, as Hume proved.

Now, here we have an intellectual Law of Nature based on thinking about observations and measurements and confirmed by prediction proved by experiment. This we call a product of Science.

Mozel announces another constant: the operation of this constant is studied by economists, bankers, government finance ministers, and investors. It has been quantified by equations just like the gravity constant. As with the gravity constant, changes to variables can be measured. But it is not a constant in physical nature. It is the constant that operates when Ten is Lent to be paid back with Eleven. It is a constant working through numbers for which there is a Moral Law.

The Law of this constant was revealed to Moses and it says, "Don't engage in usury; it is not a good thing for mankind. As I am a loving God I reveal this Law to you. If you worship in the temple of the false god Baal and practice the usury of that religion, you will be sorry that you were disobedient to the Law I have revealed to you because you will lose your land and flocks and end up a slave of Baal." ( In addition, I think this Law has been confirmed by prediction proved by experiment, but that's from history and intellectually disputable. ) Belief in this Law from God by Moses we call superstition or naivete' or religious fanaticism as contrasted with Science.

Knowledge of Moral Law is passe'. The magic performed by compound interest is a much more believable evidence of a god than any proving the existence of the unseen God of Moses. So far.

Got Freedom ?

Date: Sat May 16 1998 14:29
mozel (@Bankers Buying The Earth Back) ID#153102:

They won't. They will get it back by usury. And the reason they don't care who makes the laws is that a contract is private law between the parties. They just need an enforcer.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 14:20
mozel (@The Favored Sons in Law) ID#153102:

I propose they are in the Republic of South Africa.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 14:05
mozel (@Let's Suppose Corporations Are The Children of Government) ID#153102:

And then consider loans, expansion, and foreclosures in another chip industry besides potato chips. My plot thickens.

Of course, for these things to work out, the son in law has to keep his mouth shut and maybe act like he is borrowing to expand, too.

So, on the world stage who were the suckers in gold mining and who were the son in laws ?

Date: Sat May 16 1998 13:34
mozel (@Let's Suppose ) ID#153102:

You have the gold and your daughter is married to a potato chip maker. But, he is struggling to make ends meet since he is a high cost producer..

So, to help matters you confidentially offer loans to all of the other potato chip makers at very reasonable rates. Each of them looks at the numbers and says here is a chance to expand and get richer. So, they do expand, but the oversupply of potato chips depresses the price and instead of getting rich they get called by you for loan repayment. They can't pay. You get the facilities - cheap. You give your daughter's husband a loan to buy them and everybody lives happily ever after. Well, almost everybody.

Thoughts like these probably never occur to people who have politically correct views of the word conspiracy. But I look at gold leasing and foreclosures in SE Asia and have these kind of thoughts. Bad Mozel.

Dis-Hoarding of Gold or selling of Gold by a CB is a one time shot to the supply side. Honest Leasing of CB Gold is also a one time shot to the supply side. Dishonest Leasing of CB Gold would a one time shot to the supply side with a fractional reserve multiplier. BIS frowns upon CB's that have over committed Gold put up as pledge for settlement. I mean you cannot Lease Gold and put the same Gold up as your pledge at the same time consequence-free if you are found out by BIS.

Reportedly if there are more than two defaults per one hundred leases, all of the interest will be lost. And the vaults will be permanently reduced by two leases worth of gold. This will likely damage your credit rating.

Now, leasing gold to miners and buying forward production of gold are interesting propositions. If I had a gold mine, I would do it. Hell, I don't know where the vein ends, but you, offerror of gold on lease and the buyer of my forward sale contract, think you do. You can't make a slave out of me if I default. So, I will sell lease and forward as long as you will offer gold and buy forward. If I can't deliver, all you are going to get is a worked out mine. ( Does the phrase High Grading in 1997 ring a bell. ) And I'll be clipping coupons from Government Bonds somewhere. ( This is the vision, the dream, the lure, of usury everywhere, the ultimate lifestyle of something for nothing. )

CB leasing and the trading of paper gold on a par risk with physical gold at LBMA are just government manipulation of a currency market. Keeping gold down is keeping the $US up, as a reserve currency and as a vehicle into stores of value like stocks, bonds, and real estate. Seems to me that simple. But people like Soros and Rotschild know you don't resist; you help the CB's along in the direction they want to go and look for the opportunity. Well, shorting gold was the first opportunity. The other opportunity was to pick up mine properties cheap. Then go back for the Intermediate Grade at a good profit when the price rises. Rotschild is ready for it to rise.

Does anybody else see that this has all worked out to the benefit of the high cost producers like the son in law in potato chips ?

Date: Sat May 16 1998 04:12
mozel (@refer @Tolerant1) ID#153102:

@refer Noone reads all the posts so this is not critique. But, your comment to me indicates you have missed some of mine.

@Tolerant1 The streets are filled with well fed, well dressed people enjoying a standard of living beyond the imagination of the most visionary in the past. There is more wealth on four wheels in America than in the public treasuries of most countries on this planet. There is material abundance, comfort, and convenience, libraries, periodicals, music. There are schools and universities and sport and churches for every taste. America is filled with ambitious, energetic, creative, hard working people. It is possible, not even difficult, to depict the glass as all full.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 01:17
mozel (@ERLE) ID#153102:

As good as gold.

This is a political statement. It was the political statement made by the United States about the obligations of the British Crown when Britain ran out of gold after WWI.

Later the same political statement was made about the $US at Bretton Woods. But, when the gold ran out and Nixon made the political declaration that the $US was as good as gold, it did not wash.

But, they patched it up by creating the IMF.

And followed the worship of Baal with mostly paper like unto the clay tablets of Babylon. But it is not its place as the foundation of usury which defines gold's role in commerce today. It is its intrinsic value which makes it irreplaceable as a pledge for performance.

For the BIS gold is the pledge you must place to guarantee your side of a transaction. Gold is wealth, not necessarily money. Money always has some political risk because it is issued by governments. Only gold money has no risk attached because Gold has no risk.

Date: Sat May 16 1998 00:27
mozel (@Mister RJ) ID#153102:

Think on this. Debt cannot be paid with debt.

Usery is the basis of this prosperity in the Land of Baal. The rest of the world, particularly the non-European part of it that has been the object of "humanitarian loans & aid" from the IMF & World Bank is as desperate as the first Babylonian farmer to fall into the usury trap of the temple of Baal.

Eleven for ten. One simple operation repeated many times leading to the same result, the destruction of the borrower. The intellect ought to grasp this. But, for some reason, it does not. It is only clear in a moral light. And sadly, the West disbelieves its Scripture. But, the course of usury will run whether the warnings not to engage in it are believed or not.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 23:21
mozel (@clone) ID#153102:

The law case of the Railroad Bonds secured with Trust Mortgage

1. Bankruptcy Case

Bankruptcy Court is not an Article III Court. Constitution does not control. Acts of Congress alone control.

1. IN DETERMINING THE NATURE OF THE OBLIGATION, BONDS AND MORTGAGE MUST BE CONSTRUED TOGETHER. P. 253.

2. THE BONDS AND MORTGAGE ARE DOMESTIC OBLIGATIONS, TO BE INTERPRETED AND ENFORCED ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF THIS COUNTRY. P. 254.

3. THE BONDS ARE OBLIGATIONS "PAYABLE IN MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES," WITHIN THE MEANING OF THE JOINT RESOLUTION OF JUNE 5, 1933, AND UNDER THAT RESOLUTION, ARE PAYABLE DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR IN PRESENT LEGAL TENDER. P. 256.

Notice the language: the bonds are not paid. They are stated to be obligations which are discharged. You know right there that this court is talking bankruptcy language. Payable is tricky language. An obligation may be payable in eggs.

SINCE THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THE TERMS OF THE BONDS GRANTED HOLDERS AN OPTION TO ELECT PAYMENT IN GUILDERS, WE MUST DETERMINE WHETHER, DESPITE THIS OPTION, THE JOINT RESOLUTION OPERATED TO MAKE THE BONDS DISCHARGEABLE IN CURRENT UNITED STATES LEGAL TENDER - A DOLLAR OF LEGAL TENDER TO BE REPAID FOR EVERY DOLLAR BORROWED.

Treason was the King's favorite accusation. Good to get lands with.

Hence, treason is hard to prove by American law.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors is the language for charges against the King's ministers.

Endangering the Constitution and the security of the Republic by nonfeasance, misfeasance, or malfeasance in office is good preamble language for a High Crime indictment.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 22:16
mozel (@Leland) ID#153102:

The law case of the Railroad Bonds secured with Trust Mortgage

1. Bankruptcy Case

Bankruptcy Court is not an Article III Court. Constitution does not control. Acts of Congress alone control.

1. IN DETERMINING THE NATURE OF THE OBLIGATION, BONDS AND MORTGAGE MUST BE CONSTRUED TOGETHER. P. 253.

2. THE BONDS AND MORTGAGE ARE DOMESTIC OBLIGATIONS, TO BE INTERPRETED AND ENFORCED ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF THIS COUNTRY. P. 254.

3. THE BONDS ARE OBLIGATIONS "PAYABLE IN MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES," WITHIN THE MEANING OF THE JOINT RESOLUTION OF JUNE 5, 1933, AND UNDER THAT RESOLUTION, ARE PAYABLE DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR IN PRESENT LEGAL TENDER. P. 256.

Notice the language: the bonds are not paid. They are stated to be obligations which are discharged. You know right there that this court is talking bankruptcy language. Payable is tricky language. An obligation may be payable in eggs.

SINCE THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THE TERMS OF THE BONDS GRANTED HOLDERS AN OPTION TO ELECT PAYMENT IN GUILDERS, WE MUST DETERMINE WHETHER, DESPITE THIS OPTION, THE JOINT RESOLUTION OPERATED TO MAKE THE BONDS DISCHARGEABLE IN CURRENT UNITED STATES LEGAL TENDER - A DOLLAR OF LEGAL TENDER TO BE REPAID FOR EVERY DOLLAR BORROWED.

Everything thereafter is controlled by the fact this is Railroad Bonds ( Federal Corporation ? ) in a federal bankruptcy court proceeding. Congress can make any rule it likes for a federally chartered corporation because it is a creature of Congress, was created by and exists to serve the public good ( public policy ) as expressed by Congress. Congress also has the power to make uniform rules for bankruptcy. Was the joint resolution on legal tender made pursuant to the power to make uniform rules in bankruptcy ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 17:50
mozel (@Aragorn @Tyoung @Leland) ID#153102:

I was thinking a little higher.

But, what about compounding ? How many years did the gold loan program go on ?

I think they could easily be at or above 35% of annual production.

@Leland I'll get back on the court case. The more I think about being governed by worshippers of the false, wicked God Baal, the more sick I am to my stomach.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 17:40
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Baal is newer satisfied.

I think somebody should look and see if it is recorded whether or not Baal demanded human sacrifice.

Yes, issuing credit cards to the Chinese would bring new, debt free billions to Baal's temple.

The corporations are not capitalized. They are founded on debt. And the ultimate lender to whom the debt is owed is whom ?

So, in what sense are they not already owned by that lender ? When you have a debt claim, there is no reason to add to it a lesser equity claim on assets.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 17:30
mozel (@Tyoung) ID#153102:

The whole world inventory of gold increases, I think, at about 2% per year. 2% interest on gold loans for 8,000 tons of gold payable as gold interest would require what percentage of all of the annuanl gold production just to make interest payments ?

In usury little numbers mean a lot.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 17:12
mozel (@Auctions) ID#153102:

I guess a call for an auction is just ANOTHER way to say the price is too low. Too bad you never know who is in cahoots with whom.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 16:59
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Well, I know it sounds unsophisticated, but to me the temple in which you choose to worship matters a lot. I think the origin of all the demons in demoncracy is Baal. Usury. The getting of something for nothing.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 16:48
mozel (@Tyoung) ID#153102:

OK, so if you suppose the CB were plotting to get gold mines out of this manufactured gold depression, what is that Rotschild guy doing calling for public auctions of gold by the European CB ?

Calling a bluff ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 16:24
mozel (@Avalon (correcting typo) @Gianni) ID#153102:

How much gold does the US Government owe and to whom ?

Gianni I think only registered voters are put on jury lists.

Which means only "artificial persons" sit on juries.

Which is why they can prosecute jurors for not staying within the lines.

They could not do that to a common law juror who was a man and not an "artificial person".

Date: Fri May 15 1998 16:17
mozel (@Avalon) ID#153102:

But all you get is a discharge for satisfying an obligation. Debt cannot be paid with debt.

The Babylonian Farmer could never pay his debt in gold with clay tablets no matter how many he had.

How much gold does the US Government who and to whom ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 16:12
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

I think they cull the jury lists for employees of banks, insurance companies, hospitals ( subsidiaries of insurance companies ) , and government and "lose" everyone else.

A nation found on the Law of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob cannot survive governed by the law from the temple of Baal.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 15:58
mozel (@Tyoung) ID#153102:

Not odd if you consider a miner a farmer of gold and the Central Bank as the temple of Baal.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 15:48
mozel (@Tyoung) ID#153102:

In other words, the Babylonian Farmer's Farm.

For somebody who says they have enough gold, it seems odd that they would want more gold as interest. Remember the law of payment and debt. You cnnot pay debt with debt. To own a gold mine, you need to pay for it in gold or collect on a gold debt owed by it.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 15:39
mozel (@Think Long & Hard On This) ID#153102:

OK The Federal Reserve Notes held as reserves by CB's around the world and held as deposits in US Banks and held in people's pockets are all Notes for Nothing.

So, if I collect Notes for Nothing out the banking system, what accounting rule makes me account for them ?

You don't have to account for Nothing or likewise for a Note for Nothing.

Whe AG injects liquidity he is just putting I.O.U. nothing on one side of the ledger, but you owe me credits entries against the receiving Banks books on the other side.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 15:21
mozel (@Think Long & Hard On This) ID#153102:

OK Slavery is outlawed.

Somebody wanted to borrow gold. 8,000 tons of it ? And pay 1 or 2% GOLD INTEREST.

What was the collateral for the loan ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 15:00
mozel (@Think Long & Hard On This) ID#153102:

If Greenspan simply sops up liquidity and puts the sponge in his desk instead of doing something like adding it to the debt side of the ledger, who is any the wiser ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 14:04
mozel (@Think Long & Hard On This) ID#153102:

A Debt contract to be paid in Gold can only be paid in Gold.

Was the 1 or 2 % which the CB have been lending gold usuriously out upon to be repaid in Gold ? As in Babylon ?

Date: Fri May 15 1998 10:30
mozel (@Whom They Serve) ID#153102:

"In 1997, there were over 50,000 Americans serving in United Nations military deployments somewhere in the world. In every case, their commanding officers signed an oath or a contract in which he agreed to disregard the national desires of ANY nation, including his own, serving instead the United Nations exclusively!"

The Soldiers of Baal

Date: Fri May 15 1998 03:47
mozel (@Gianni Indonesia in America; not my authorship) ID#153102:

How true this message is. Here is another.

Byron Dale, continuing a 16 year fight for economic Freedom for the

American people has been incarcerated!

How it all started.

As Byron Dale, filled with tension, sat at his kitchen table talking to one of the two police officers invited into his home, he was brutally struck across the forehead with a full 32 ounce glass catsup bottle, swung by the second policeman.

A bomb exploded inside of his head as he felt the bottle split his skull. He struggled to get to his feet and remain conscious. The first officer held him down to the floor while the second officer severely and maliciously beat him about his head and face beyond recognition-his life's blood spurting onto the floor. The police officers had no papers effecting Byron's person. He was not under arrest. In fact, the brutal attack had been pre-meditated! No attackers were ever charged!

At 42, Byron Dale was, like most farmers and ranchers, working hard to build a future for his family. He had served on the school board, been active in Farm Bureau, had received the county's ‘Outstanding Chairman' award and been honored as an outstanding manager by his community. Byron's records documented his outstanding management skills. The family ranch had become a very efficient and productive operation with the help of Byron's wife and sons. It was evident however, that Byron and his family were not getting the benefit of their efficiency and production. Many times, Byron had commented to his wife that if they'd gotten the benefit of all the interest they'd paid to the bank they'd be living like kings.

Byron understood that acquiring the tools needed to become productive and efficient required a lot of capital but he wondered how it could be that people like himself produced all the wealth but the banking system had all the money? He decided to write to the U. S. Treasury to get answers to some important questions like:

What is money?

How is money created?

How does new money get into circulation so that people can use it?

How does that affect our lives?

Russell L. Munk, Assistant General Counsel for the U. S. Treasury responded to Byron's questions as follows: "..the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System has the responsibility for determining United States monetary policy....when the economy grows, there are more economic transactions and more money is needed to pay for them....if the money supply is to be increased, money must be created...the actual creation of money always involves the extension of credit by private commercial banks.."

"In modern banking, new money is created by offering loans to customers. A private commercial bank which has just received extra reserves from the Fed...can make roughly six dollars in loans for every dollar in reserves it obtains from the Fed. How does it get six dollars from one dollar? It simply makes book entries for its customers saying ‘you have a deposit of six dollars with us.'...You may want to know whether the bank is the one getting the benefit of the new money, since the bank OWNS the new money while the customer has merely BORROWED the money. The bank does indeed get the benefit of the new money." ( The interest or the property)

However, the American Founders provided us with a money system that would lead to a life of satisfaction, enjoyment and prosperity to ALL who were willing to work hard and honestly in their chosen occupation.

THE ‘OLD' ROAD.

The United States Constitution ( Article 1, Section 8 ) gave Congress the authority to monetize the peoples' production as a wealth to the people.

Congress started to fulfill this duty with passage of the 1792 Coinage Act wherein they set forth the principles for an honest, prosperity-producing money system. The peoples' production was to be ‘monetized' through the process of coining the raw resources of the earth into money FREE TO AND FOR THE PRODUCER.

Any person could mine gold and silver bullion and take it to the U.S. Mint which would ‘monetize' it by assaying, weighing and stamping the raw resource into coins. The person would leave the mint with his production ‘monetized' in the form of coins which would pass from hand to hand as our medium of exchange. The money represented the wealth of the people as a wealth to the people. No debt was incurred.

But, our money system has been changed! Now, all new money is created as loans. Only the principal is created, never the interest. The system forces us to borrow to have money, borrow to pay the interest and hold some of our borrowings to have savings. It forces us to constantly borrow and is the actual cause of inflation and the growing difficulty making ends meet.

It means that eventually the title or mortgage to all property will be held by a few.

A history of Byron's ordeal explains the root cause of our Nation's growing economic problems and why, if not soon remedied will result in the loss of our nation, our way of life, all we've worked for, our hopes, our dreams. Byron's legal and political battle involves our rights to own property.

snipped

http://www.wavefront.com/~moneytalkscrm/

Word is going to get around.

Date: Fri May 15 1998 02:58
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Usury. What enormous consequences from one repeated simple operation. 11 for 10. The magic of compound interest.

America is being destroyed by usury. It's that simple. A process which took hundreds of years in Roman history has taken only 14 or 15 modern decades.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 22:57
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Remember Waco;
Remember the falsely imprisoned from Waco. They rot behind bars now. Remember Weaver's wife.

Remember Michael New.

And there are thousands you have not heard about. Like the kid the Marines shot in Texas a couple of months back. Or the kid the Oregon cops beat to death while he was handcuffed in jail just recently.

Nobody in, around, or from government can be trusted. Nobody. And that includes especially lawyers.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 22:30
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

Every $US that the Federal Reserve drains from world liquidity makes it that much harder for the South Koreans to come up with their 30% worth of modern Talents - in competition with desperate Indonesia. And every $US Japan converts back to yen makes it that much more unlikely they will be able to.

Economists - what are they good for. Nuthin'. Gianni's posts explained more about economics than 99.9% of the stuff published by economists in this century. They give the phrase "money supply" a whole new meaning, don't they ?

Date: Thu May 14 1998 22:16
mozel (@vronsky) ID#153102:

US Greenback fell 83% in buying power from 1965-1995.

And Venezuela's currency fell 9X% in the last 15 years against the $US ?

If there is deflation equal and opposite as reaction to inflation, grim is not word enough.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 22:08
mozel (@Alberich One More; I never saw the one promised on Rome) ID#153102:

Date: Thu May 14 1998 17:48
Gianni Dioro__A ( History of Banks, continued from 13 may ) ID#384350:

From Nexus Mag. Aug-Sep 93 ( Vol 2, no 15 ) which was extracted from the book, "Sar Cycles, Peace Cycles" by Richard K Hoskins. Published by: The Virginia Publishing Co, PO Box 997, Lynchburg VA 24505 TAXES--TO START MONEY MOVING

Date: Thu May 14 1998 21:44
mozel (@Alberich Here's the Second) ID#153102:

Date: Wed May 13 1998 20:52
Gianni Dioro__A ( Addendum II to 17:32 post: History of Banks ) ID#384350:

From Nexus Mag. Aug-Sep 93 ( Vol 2, No 15 ) which was extracted from "War Cycles, Peace Cycles" by Richard K Hoskins. Published by: The Virginia Publishing Company, PO Box 997, Lynchburg VA 24505, USA PERSIA CONQUERS BABYLON

Look For The Third in the Posts of Today

Date: Thu May 14 1998 21:34
mozel (@Alberich Here's the First) ID#153102:

Date: Wed May 13 1998 17:32
Gianni Dioro__A ( History of Banks ) ID#384350:

From the Aug-Sep 93 ( Vol 2, no. 15 ) issue of Nexus Magazine. Extracted from the Book, "War Cycles, Peace Cycles" by Richard Kelly Hoskins. Published by : The Virginia Publishing Company, PO Box 997, Lynchburg VA 24505, USA. BABYLONIAN ECONOMIC SYSTEM--2000 BC--THE FIRST DEFAULTS

Date: Thu May 14 1998 20:40
mozel (@panda) ID#153102:

I've heard it was not 100,000. How many was it ? And no he didn't personally hire them. He doesn't even directly pay them. And they don't have to tell you the truth about a National Security matter. But, did you ever notice what is on their shoulder patches ? The martial flag of the USG ?

Date: Thu May 14 1998 20:19
mozel (@As Plain As The Nose On Your Face) ID#153102:

The Sheriff is a law man of constituted government. He serves lawful process. He has deputies.

Now, consider a police unit. There is a Commander In Chief. There is a Captain. There is a Lieutenant. There is a Sergeant. And there are the officers in the ranks. It's a military structure and a martial law unit.

It's an occupying force right in your town or city. To whom does this occupying force report ? Here is a clue. Who increased the size of that occupying force by 100,000 during his term of office ?

Date: Thu May 14 1998 20:00
mozel (@Retired_Soldier @Lurker) ID#153102:

Federalized means what it means to people in the regular armed forces. Even a non-military like myself knows that people who do not follow orders in federal military service are court martialed - minimum. Even I know about Operation Garden Plot.

Lurker Think out of the box where they will not be thinking or looking.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 19:47
mozel (@Age of Control ) ID#153102:

I see a theme in the news coming to us from different sectors around the world. That theme is loss of control. That's the threat of Y2K, isn't it ? That these computers which control processes, accounts, transactions, balances, transport movement, and all else among the divisions of labor will cease to operate and control reliably. It's also the threat from derivatives, isn't it ? They were invented to manage ( i.e. control ) risk. The threat is that they won't or haven't. It's also the threat from the Indian nuclear news, isn't it ? That the controlling treaty to prevent proliferation of these weapons cannot be enforced, that their distribution and development cannot be controlled.

I could go on.

But, I conclude with gold and its price which have been controlled. This, too, shall pass. It was a function of the plan for global socialism led by the United States as a covert means of retaining hegemony. That plan has failed. For a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the people of the world do not wish to be slaves in usury to the US. Those posts by Gianni were priceless in the moral and historical context which they give. Only by allowing gold to be traded in a freely bid market can the value of all other currencies be truly measured. Nothing less will satisfy nations.

Many things in our non-natural environemt will not be the constants they seem now to be. That's what flux is all about.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 19:14
mozel (@Suspicious @Dark Spot on the Hour) ID#153102:

The feds cannot order a Constitutional Officer of a State such as a Sheriff. That was an issue in a recent case out of Arizona. But, police chiefs in citys are another matter. Law-enforcement in this country is federalized, believe it or not. Law-enforcement is a term from Acts of Congress.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 17:58
mozel (@Yea, Verily) ID#153102:

By the law ye are governed.

Trouble is noone knows what the law is. This is no joke. There are tens of millions of words of law and regulation at federal, state, and city and county levels of government. There are thousands of decided cases in the publications of the Court Reporters. Needless to say, the average person can't afford to find the law much less get the law. And needless to say, the Courts hardly function as you might reasonably expect them to function. And the person you pay to be your attorney in Court does not work for you. He works for the court as an officer thereof. He is required to go along to get along.

The average American relies on word of mouth, company communications, and media reports for knowledge of law. He is more ignorant of the law that governs him than was the average Babylonian farmer. Still think modern equals progress ?

Now, the people in government have nothing else to do but study what the law will allow them to do. And apply it. And push the envelope. So, the average person receiving an official contact or communication has no idea of what to do but comply or call a lawyer ( and get the counsel the lawyer thinks the Court will tolerate him giving you ) . So, nearly everyone complies. They assume a government official would not demand something the law did not allow. Wrong. They demand what they think they can get. They have nothing else to do with their day. And they are persistent. If you attempt to resist, you soon learn that, "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by those who resist it."

The FDR Socialist Revolution put in motion changes to the basic law, superceding modifications of the traditional common-law where your rights were first secured, which are even now snowballing with ever expanding implications onto the people. The federal government through its fiscal and other agencies is a temple of Baal practicing the sin of usury at home and abroad. But, they want more than payment. They want obedience to regulations over your life and what you think is your property. They have taken English feudal law, called it part of the common-law, and imposed a Babylonian and socialist feudalism on this nation. They will not be satisfied until you apply for permission, wait for approval, follow instructions, and pass their inspection. And pay for all of it out of your pocket. They are practising forfeiture and seizure like the King's men of yore. Begging for liberty and justice will not move their hearts.

Almost every State Constitution prohibits martial law and yet people on this forum routinely use the phrase. If you don't know your rights and how to assert them at law, you might as well not have any. They are not going away. The law is going to be what they make it or what the people make it. They have had all of the input for quite some time now. Affiliate. Divide the labor. Study and counsel together. Or resign yourself to be at some point no better off than a Babylonian farmer or a midieval serf. Whatever happens in the public life of this country in these uncertain times, knowledge never hurts.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 16:36
mozel (@vronsky) ID#153102:

American citizens have no rights in the property held in the name of the United States Government. Neither have stockholders in IBM rights in the property held in the name of IBM. So, save your petition paper.

I wonder what the Fort Knox gold was. Gold from Japan and other conquered places probably.

FDR ordered gold to be deposited in the Federal Reserve Banks.

Then, he gave an I.O.U. to them and used the gold as redeemable backing for the international trade greenback. I think the gold is in the national debt somewhere. The US also deposited gold with IMF at its founding.

I think the US Government owes an answer to the people as to just exactly how much gold is owed by this government to whom. That's the sort of question Senators and Representatives should be able to answer since Congress has the power to tax, borrow, and spend and the duty to keep the books.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 16:05
mozel (@Carl) ID#153102:

"Gold Stock" sounds like a derivative to me. I think they have paper gold, an I.O.U. from US Treasury.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 15:43
mozel (@Vronsky) ID#153102:

Is US gold in the possession of US Treasury or Federal Reserve ?

Fort Knox is not part of the Federal Reserve System, I don't think. Just exactly whose asset is it ?

Date: Thu May 14 1998 11:42
mozel (@RJ ) ID#153102:

Kudos & thanks for your efforts in obtaining a Kitco sponsor.

And a good one to boot.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 11:35
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Prosecuting jurors. New trend. American case in Colorado.

Political Law at work. Common-law superseded virtually entirely.

Rights replaced by obligations enforced by the worshippers of Baal.

Welcome to the justice of the NWO.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 02:29
mozel (@Jeil) ID#153102:

Away to ponder the probability of various apparent constants continuing into the future.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 02:00
mozel (@Jeil) ID#153102:

Unpatriotic has acquired a collectivist usage. It seems Patriotism shall ever serve as the last refuge for a scoundrel to the confoundment of some good men.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 01:30
mozel (@Jeil) ID#153102:

Considering transaction costs and the absence of any guarantee that gold will be available from the mint without more markup tomorrow, the greater risk is to assume constants in the future. As I will not sell, they will never see my naked bottom. Got Gold ?

Date: Thu May 14 1998 00:57
mozel (@Jeil) ID#153102:

A man who mislabeled his things might be said to exhibit signs of madness.

But, by Propaganda, madness may be made the norm in a society.

So it is when we call paper money.

And we call a charade a market.

And are not convicted of the sin in usury.

And justify Pilate with Scripture and doctrine of it.

Someday not too far in our future, many things will be not as before. But, many things will still be as before, those being the things of true and permanent knowledge.

Date: Thu May 14 1998 00:32
mozel (What's Gonna Happen) ID#153102:

Forced contributions for social security and tax payments will be collected.

Interest on Debt will be paid and new Debt will be acquired to give benefits to the distressed.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 23:06
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

"Mozel, does inalienable rights mean that the govt cannot subject itself

to usury and then tax its citizenry to pay the usurer?"

Inalienable rights means rights the government cannot put a lien upon with a tax debt, rights the government cannot tax, in short, for any purpose or reason whatsoever. They are taxing life with ground-rent. And they are taxing the pursuit of happiness six ways from Sunday.

Oh, when at last it comes clear what it means in the law that the federal government is a bankrupt practicing usury for a receiver who is a usurious lender, the root of the wickedness that copulates in the temple of Baal in the City of Washington is revealed.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 22:26
mozel (@arkbuilder) ID#153102:

Noah says the women still demand from their admirers gold for adornment.

And the bedouin still demand it of their king for their services.

And the peasant still demands it as money in many places in the East.

And none of these read the newspapers.
 
 

Date: Wed May 13 1998 22:15
mozel (@Cmax) ID#153102:

Hie thee to a Bouvier's 1856 dictionary of the law.

Read ye there under the word Contract.

Think long and hard on that.

I think you will have to buy my book for the full, easy to follow explanation to answer your question. I await signs and portents from the infernal attorneys for the temple of Baal for confirmation that I know the law. But your man Kowalnik has it wrong. This much I know for certain.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 22:00
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

Yea, verily, though I say usury is worship in the temple of Baal and usury is lying down with the whore of Babylon who enslaves and destroys those who lie with her, noone understands my words. Perhaps it is because I have not said Keynes is a concubine in the temple of Baal and the number which is the number of the inventory of human flesh for Baal is the social security number.

Yea, verily, though I say to the people here that a lien is created by a debt and that all men are created equal and endowed by the Creater with certain inaLIENable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, noone understands my words.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 19:17
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Cease participation in the inventorying of human flesh; for those who are counted thereby are as cattle or slaves, self-professed property.

Make an exodus from Babylon.

Forswear the worship of Baal and abandon the userious followers of Baal to their destruction.

Study the common-law.

For the day shall come when there shall be but one plea to release you from the hands of the soldiers of Baal and that plea shall be, "I am not one of yours."

Date: Wed May 13 1998 18:18
mozel (@AragornIII @Gianni @Baal) ID#153102:

Aragorn, your project is great, but I have gone from gloom to grim.

Gianni Your post tells it all.

The Chase Bank was the Priest of Baal to America. It loaned the USG more gold than it could ever pay back. In 1913 the worship of Baal was made the established religion with the Act of Congress creating the Federal Reserve System. In 1933 the offices of Chief Priest of Bail and Commander In Chief were combined in the Executive Office.

Most slaves in the ancient world were not in chains. Like modern slaves of Baal they were controlled by law. Chains are only necessary for those slaves who disobey.

Like the Babylonian farmer, we have a debt we can never pay. Our "money" is debt. It is Notes for Nothing obliging the payment of interest. Debt can never be paid with debt.

We marvel at the magic of compound interest in our accounts. We are usurious worshippers of Baal. We perish for lack of knowledge. We are too clever and too worldly wise to read a Bible. We not only do not know what is money, but we deny it is money. We not only do not know the law, but we deny it is law. Yet, we are controlled by it. We obey it. We are slaves of our own making, like the borrowing, ignorant farmer of Babylonia who did not know the law.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 17:20
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

It is the belief of the less clever, less nimble people like those in the tribes of the Mozel and the Aragorn that

Possession is leverage in a class unto itself and infinitely superior in suddenly changing circumstances to all non-possessory kinds of leverage.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 16:54
mozel (@AragornIII) ID#153102:

In your words, "The vital element necessary is patience and intellegent application of leverage. Missing that, a person requires a knack for recognizing the precise moment when the equilibrium has been brought so out-of-balance that collapse is imminent. Because I lack that keen sense for timing the markets I find myself playing the part of the patient man. It isn't possible to be ready too early, because by definition it isn't possible to be ready after-the-fact. People preparing for the demise of the greenback by converting their savings to gold is exactly the leverage I refer to. Got gold?"

Assuming the participants on this forum are above average in intellect and education, the chat has convinced me of one thing for sure: it's going to be difficult to form an informed consensus to reform the institutions of this country in a crisis. So, lurching from crisis to crisis may become the norm here. Got gold ?

Date: Wed May 13 1998 16:02
mozel (@Pete) ID#153102:

What you want is what FDR gave: practical paper currency backed by gold in the hands of the government. It's what we have.

And Social Security, too. And a constant flow of grants for "public investment" for worthy causes. It's a System. Demoncracy. And it works. Don't rock the boat. ( If they would just deliver the checks on Independence Day, it would be perfect. )

Date: Wed May 13 1998 15:45
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:

I wonder if your post was the whole, rest of the story.

But, anyway, what you propose is what FDR proposed in 1933. Here, put your gold in the banks to back the greenback. I guess we should know by now how that plan works out.

The decision to trust the bank or the government with my money is a decision I want to make. I do not wish to be the ward of the State.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 15:31
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:

So, gold in the hand is no longer practical as money.

Aikido is just self-defense stuff. Boxing is a sport.

Boxing has gone down hill since they allowed referees in the ring. Before that, the boxing ring was a true trial arena.

There is a vast, constant hunger among human beings to know the truth by a trial. Trials were held by fire, water, and combat until about 1215. Sport fulfills that hunger to witness a physical decision of truth for modern folk. When the trial is over, you know the score.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 15:10
mozel (@Pete) ID#153102:

So, gold in the hand is no longer practical as money.

I saw your post on this. I think you will hear a lot of people in high places broadcasting your tune in the next several years if they have their way. If they do, you will be no doubt be voting for the Constitution of the New ( Regional ) States of America with pride in your practicality. You have certainly trashed the existing Constitution and common-law because they are by your opinion impractical for the modern world.

Mozel, imploring God to kill off the Social Security generation with Y2K or something before they can trash the rest of our heritage.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 14:28
mozel (@The Psychology of Fund Transfer) ID#153102:

The image of the Japanese depositor patiently feeding paper to an ATM abides. She must have done this to avoid embarassing her Japanese bank with the fact she was moving funds to a Foreigner's bank. Or, she was paniced about the safety of funds to the extent she was afraid a check would not clear. Funds moves after the mind moves.

Then, I'm thinking of EB's questions about coins. It's like "OK, if I buy this insurance policy, is there any money back gurantee ?" EB is probably not thinking like that, but the question of convertibility is fundamental to a choice of currency when you are moving funds. Every advantage of speed and convenience of convertibility has been put in place for fiat paper. Obstacles abound in the way of gold. Except for its derivative, paper gold.

I think I remember an advertising slogan saying, "Get some control of your life." Pete is right, of course. He who has the gold makes the rules is the worldly man's version of the golden rule. I think World Gold Council should advertise that "Gold will give you some control of your life." But, even if they don't, as the uncertainty, turbulence, and turmoil of a world in debt beyond rational belief increases, people will advertise the fact to themselves. When you go outside and the sun is shining and you watch people calmly attending to their affairs, it is difficult to imagine them abandoning the greenback. The news that people overseas have abandoned the greenback will not mean much to most of them. Americans, except Southerners of heritage, know nothing of political catastrophe. Southerners usually have some confederate money around to remind them. People have been beating their heads against this System for a lot longer than the gold bear has lasted. The identification of society and government is the essence of the word totalitarian. And most Americans have psychologiclly submitted to the totalitarians. They use the words society and government interchangeably, as in, "Money is what society says it is." Oh, the arbitrary power of definition. The emperor is divine. His word is law.

Public, legal robbery is the basis of elections in the USA. So long as the taxing power is intact, the politicians are going to send out collectors to gather forced contributions for social security and tax payments to satisfy the interest on the debt. I think we are on the verge of the greatest short squeeze the American people have ever experienced. And transferring funds to some unit of account, medium of exchange, and store of value which is less easily expropriated will soon be uppermost of the minds of many of them.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 06:10
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:

I like your notion of the future of gold being to back up debt instruments.

Such as checks.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 06:03
mozel (@squirrel) ID#153102:

It would clarify my last post somewhat if I mention that inflation is the universal tax. In a rising stock market you avoid the inflation tax and the conventional tax. So, it is by far and away the best store of value. So long as it rises.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 05:57
mozel (@squirrel) ID#153102:

Lots of good thoughts there, but you lost me in your valuation of postits. If you want a new frontier, sell stock. I don't want to pay for it in exactions.

Speaking of consuming, anecdotal evidence is that the American consumer is about tapped out. I guess personal debt can sink you as deeply as public debt.

The stock market bubble is more a function of tax policy than usually recognized, I think. It is the only place you can park greenbacks and store value for the future without paying taxes in the present. That is why it is the preferred store of value at the moment.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 05:25
mozel (@The Goldbug's Fate) ID#153102:

The credo of the goldbug might be taken from Milton's line: "They also serve who only stand and wait." Something like, they also serve who lose their shirt while waiting.

But, what is the goldbug waiting for ? Besides the payoff. The goldbug is waiting, I think, for the natural order to assert itself. It is an implied belief of goldbugs that the market is a force of nature. This is a belief so deep that even after the evidence of manipulation has become overwhelming, the naturalist students of markets still apply tools and techniques developed for freely traded markets to the gold market.

Of course, global socialism or nazism operates to manage the movement of supply, demand, and price. The goldbug believes nature will prevail. Being a goldbug is kind of like waiting for the Mississippi river to break loose of the constraints of dams and levees constructed by the Army Corps of Engineers. It's going to happen someday, but in the meantime the USG is spending zillions to stop it. Fortunately for goldbugs, gold is a good deal stronger than the Mississippi. Also, nobody is going around sabotaging levees. The same cannot be said about the artificial constraints on gold.

Time is the goldbug's friend because the course of fiat debt currency is linear and irreversible. The debt accummulated against the $US is a pretty good sized debt trap. As long as the overseas part of it stays overseas as CB reserves and pocket change for cash dealers, it is not a burden. But, the politicians in America have killed their golden egg laying goose with deficit politics and exported inflation. Apolitical gold is simply the better reserve currency. Natural selection is winning out.

The number of people in America who know gold is money is probably larger than usually estimated. But, the number of those who think gold ought to replace greenbacks today is miniscule. Gold as money means the end of social security. It means having to write off all those forced contributions as sunk cost. It's going to take a crisis to wean the American people from the greenback. Y2K could do it if it happens as badly as it may. If Treasury defaults, bye bye to full faith and credit as a borrowing tool. Bye bye to social security as a political tool. You never know what direction natural selection will take ahead of time. If you did, it wouldn't be natural selection.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 03:48
mozel (@PH in L.A.) ID#153102:

Apartment and condo dwellers make the best environmentalism socialists because they can practice their larceny of other people's rights in property under the illusion that they have nothing to lose. Likewise, it hardly ever occurs to boat people that their boats could someday be outlawed as harmful environmental flotsam. Similarly, but more realistically, the Enviro-Nazi elite have large spreads with big fences and security patrols. The apartment dwellers seem oblivious to the fact that when the elite Enviro-Nazis say the earth is too populated, they are talking about them as being surplus. When you get down to it, too many people are bad for the air. In the words of Pol Pot, "Everybody go to country now. City bad."

I noticed that as a condition for settlement, Minnesota required the tobacco companies to stop funding scientific research on tobacco and close their Institute. Gosh, is this like the Church telling Galileo to shut up ? It probably doesn't seem like it to the faithful. They are so sure there is nothing more to be learned that prohibiting more research is the right thing to do. But, I also noticed that it is not tobacco which the Nico-Nazi scientists have been researching. It is tobacco products. They buy them off the shelf, test, and publish. Some control. They are testing variations of herbicide and pesticide and additive and whatever in uncontrolled samples, along with variable mixtures of tobacco from around the world, and calling all of it tobacco research. Who cares if it is junk science ? It is good political science. It's the tobacco companies that are the ultimate target of this political research after all, isn't it? The research on so-called second hand tobacco smoke is so junky I defy you to produce one rationally defensible example of it.

So, the bottom line is harmful is a label that can be authorized by the Enviro-Nazi labs on demand. Like racial research. Any publication of statistics will do. The politicians take over from there. Field political science picks up the cause from lab political science.

Under the common-law rule of decision of nuisance, if I could show your emissions were harmful to me or to my property, you had to abate your activity or move elsewhere. But, if you were there first, I could not move in next door and shut you down. Nor could I buy property on a road and demand that traffic be halted because of the noise nuisance. I was individually responsible to apprise myself of conditions before I moved in and to exercise my own free will as to whether or not I accepted them. So, if I moved to the city, I accepted alike the hazards and the benefits of city life. Any fool knows city air is not as good for you as country air. At the common-law I could not declare on arrival in the city that I was allergic to horses or horse pucky and stop the use of horses. But, I could stop your putting up a livery stable next door to me. A kind of natural order evolved according to human choice and preference. The course of this natural evolution was halted by city planning. The zone was the planning element. This was good for politicians. If they didn't like you, they could zone you out of the good stuff. And did. And do. Ask the blacks who were pillaged by urban renewal. But, it was bad for city life because it changed the city from a naturally evolving society into a political animal farm. The result is a commuter snarl and lives wasted in commuting worldwide. Some plan. Urban marxism.

It's interesting that you ask who owns the space over your land boundaries. At common-law you owned the land to the center of the earth and to the heavens. One of the first appropriations of the socialist planners was the space above land. In Boston they took everything over the third story. (Skyscrapers, made possible by new steel and new architecture, needed to be stopped to protect exisitng interests. Skyscrapers could lease space for lower price per square foot. But, naturally, that was not the stated purpose of the regulation. ) Now, of course you pay to use the space with a campaign contribution or something.

Gee, under common-law airplanes would be trespassing in your airspace. I guess they would really have to take people's rights into consideration before they built airports. That would never do. Likewise under common-law I could not block your sun with my building against your will because sun and natural light were necessary for your health. But, not so much so nowadays, apparently. No sun companies to sue.

If the city can appropriate the space over the third story, I see no reason why the space above your land belongs to you absolutely. I think you should expect someday to have to go downtown and get a permit to rearrange your furniture. Permit fee to fund monarch butterfly care awareness campaign among other purposes.

I realize that since Ted Turner and Jane Fonda and Gorbachev and the like are beautiful people, they have a greater right to life, so it follows that the monarch butterfly should have a greater right to life than the med fly or bo-weevil. After all, they are numerous and common and not beautiful. Sort of like your typical apartment dwellers when you think about it. I think if the monarch butterfly is on your land, it is your property, not the State's property. I think you have the right to protect your property. I think if you prevent the extinction of the monarch butterfly as a public policy you are interfering with evolution. You are claiming the wisdom and authority to plan evolution as you think it should be. Sort of macro-genetic engineering. In favor of what is beautiful to the eye of man. This is a new kind of anthropomorphism in which the nature to be worshipped is designed according to human preference.

Now, I like the idea of some monarch butterflys in the world well enough that I would probably chip in to buy the mating ground for a nature conservancy. Then, I could be sure they would not be sacrificed to political expediency when something valuable is discovered underneath the mating ground. As things are, however, the State may still put a road, a railroad, a pipeline, a power line, or a defense plant there. Maybe we just ought to focus on stopping government from being harmful to the environment.

Date: Wed May 13 1998 01:33
mozel (@Age of Socialism) ID#153102:

The twentieth century has been the Age of Socialism. The international socialists were styled communists and the national socialists have had different names depending on the nation. "And God said, let there be ..." and a world was created. Worlds created by human utterance are often worlds of the imagination. When they are and they are also political, human words aspire to the divine; they are primal, primary, worth fighting over in flesh and blood, in fact. Especially when the territory to be won or held is in the imagined future on earth. Propaganda is imagination in the service of victory. And by far most of what has been said in this century has been propaganda of socialisms in contest as X_ism against Y_ism.

All of the socialisms agree on some major propositions. One is that if property is important enough to the collective, then its private ownership must be surrendered or shared. All socialisms categorically reject absolute ownership of property by individuals. State direct ownership of the means of production, generally, and of the national industries, specifically, having been discredited by events and evidence, socialism may seem on the decline. However, it has been rescued from the dustbin and renewed by the proposition that only collective State regulation of property and production can protect Mother Earth. In place of the religious feeling once drawn from the now widely discredited and disbelieved Christian religion to justify forced charity, the environmentalism socialism inspires religious feelings with the doctrine and worship of Mother Earth of Native Peoples. This is an internationalist variant of the German Nazi environmentalism which celebrated the pagan Nature worship and other blood and soil virtues of the ancient tribe. Another Hitler could pop up anywhere in the political environment of socialism, even in Cambodia. United Nations or world treaties on the collective regulation of people, property, and production to protect Mother Earth are the cutting edge of International Nazism. The proposition is that as no individual within a State has an absolute right to property, no State has either. They should not only take care ( following approved instructions carefully ) , but share ( patents, technologies, and funding ) .

The US greenback is the currency of global nazism. The IMF and World Bank are environmental protection agencies in their policies of lending for development. The global political support which accrued to the US$ in its role of currency to protect Mother Earth is a major reason the US$ has held its status as reserve currency for as long as it has. Without it, there will be no Santa Claus at the U.N.

Socialism requires theft to fulfill any of its purposes so larceny lurks in the heart of every socialist. Since it is rationalized theft, it doesn't seem wrong. But, really there is no difference between a man robbing to feed his family and an environmental protection agent fining a farmer for plowing without permission. Both have rationalized that what they do is not wrong. But, in both instances somebody's right to property has been appropriated by force. If I cannot burn the leaves or a can of trash in my backyard, a right to the enjoyment of my land has been appropriated. I could go on along this line with examples for days. I think all environmentalism socialists should be branded with a big legger "T" for thief on their forehead.

I know this is politically incorrect blasphemy to say, but, then, you have to understand nature worship is not a religion of which I am a devotee.

Date: Tue May 12 1998 14:18
mozel (@International Nazis) ID#153102:

International National Socialists or Nazis are the architects of The New World Order. They are at present not routinely overt in the application of brute force without any pretext of legality. Covert is another matter.

mozel ( @EJ ) ID#153102:
The world's debtor nation has the most credit and the world's creditor nation has no credit. I daresay even Keynes himself could have never predicted his monetary theories of debt currency would produce that result.

I foresee converging a financial crisis, economic crisis, money risis, and constitutional crisis in the midst of an information and communications system malfunction. I don't like being a gloomsayer, but this System truly appears to be brittle through and through.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some days mozel you're just what the doctor ordered.

Date: Tue May 12 1998 01:21
mozel (@T1) ID#153102:

I like sailboats.

For the same reasons you do.

Date: Tue May 12 1998 01:02
mozel (@T1) ID#153102:

I have seen Boats described as floatation systems, but never micro-systems.

I am almost inspired to write a ditty I would call "Boat People", words to the tune of a song you remember titled "Short People".

Are you sure there's not a nautocrat on board as a stowaway ?

Date: Tue May 12 1998 00:40
mozel (@T1 You are, then, a self-professed true believer.) ID#153102:

Sell the Boat. Your System is gonna need you.

I have come to despise the word system and any word ending in "crat".

Date: Tue May 12 1998 00:17
mozel (@EJ) ID#153102:

The world's debtor nation has the most credit and the world's creditor nation has no credit. I daresay even Keynes himself could have never predicted his monetary theories of debt currency would produce that result.

I foresee converging a financial crisis, economic crisis, money crisis, and constitutional crisis in the midst of an information and communications system malfunction. I don't like being a gloomsayer, but this System truly appears to be brittle through and through.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 23:47
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

It still needs some work. But, thanks for encouraging the mad scientist in me.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 23:25
mozel (@EJ) ID#153102:

It's been a long time coming, primarily because there was the interval of spending the gold brought back from conquered countries after WWII.

But, who in their right mind would accept a promise to pay securitized by nothing from the hand of a bankrupt ?

Date: Mon May 11 1998 23:13
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

Sticky Prices Downward. Yes.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 23:01
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

Law Course
http://www.obnet.com/users/rdjbotty/

For habeas corpus when you positively, absolutely want your friends to get you out and other trustworthy counsel :
http://announce.com/~behold/

Date: Mon May 11 1998 22:51
mozel (@Deflation) ID#153102:

When your unit of account is debt, there must be constant inflation. There has been constant inflation since the American unit of account was made debt by FDR. Even during recessions there has been constant inflation. All of the "economists" know this. It was the point of the Krugman article about a "liquidity sink" posted by Sorex as well.

You do not have deflation when the unit of account is debt. You have the end of the world as we know it.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 22:35
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

IPO date for Frostrich is classified information.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 22:23
mozel (@Frostrich ) ID#153102:

Introducing the Hybrid product of Cold War mind control: The Frostrich.

Like the frog, the frostrich will stay in the pan while the heat rises until he is boiled tender. But like the ostrich, the frostrich thinks that if he can't see it then it doesn't exist and it won't hurt him.

Here on Frostrich Farm, we have no capital. but we have a capitalist economy.

Here on Frostrich Farm, we don't own anything, but we pay taxes on what we own.

Here on Frostrich Farm, we have a bankrupt government ruling by necessity of emergency, but it is Constitutional.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 21:34
mozel (@Aragorn III @Alberich @Donald) ID#153102:

AIII Q.E.D.

Alberich Correction: FOLCMOTE. The name of a court among the Saxons. ( Pre-Christian, naturally. )

Donald: The Cold War was lost before it was fought. A hoard of saved potatoes is not capital. Neither is a hoard of saved printed green paper. There is literally no capital in corporations which are "capitalized" with notes, especially notes for nothing. They are bankrupt ab initio ( from the beginning ) . Their exact legal status and the exact legal status of their share certificates and bonds is not clear, but it cannot be sound.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 18:58
mozel (@Aragorn III) ID#153102:

Hope yours is as well.

Wouldn't you get the nugget answer faster by going first two and two and then frogging one from each pan ?

Date: Mon May 11 1998 18:42
mozel (@Aragorn III) ID#153102:

The only probability that matters in the Giant and three door riddle is the probability that the Giant is benign.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 18:32
mozel (@Giant Riddles) ID#153102:

I hold with those who say the Giant can have no motive to open a door except to deceive you away from your first, correct choice.

Here is a Giant Riddle: The Giant announces you must surrender to all his warrants whether they be true warrants or false warrants and trust your fate to the Giant while in his custody.

The Giant sends a drawf to you with a Mass Arrest Warrant. You know this is a false warrant because there is no law for mass warrants as they can be no law for mass conviction or mass guilt. But, a Giant that will demand surrender to a false arrest warrant may also demand surrender to a false death warrant or a false warrant for imprisonment.

Should you go quietly or kill the Dwarf ?

Date: Mon May 11 1998 14:56
mozel (@clone) ID#153102:

My apologies. It seems there is always at least one to justify Pilate with Judeo-Christian scripture and their doctrine of it and my skin there is thin.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 14:12
mozel (@clone) ID#153102:

Yes, I suppose I am.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 13:58
mozel (@Preacher @Alberich) ID#153102:

Preacher Tell me the price of gold next week in the a.m., for if you know that, it is the sum of your knowledge for me.

@Alberich The word Fremote you may find in Bouvier's 1856 dictionary of the law. You may add it to your arsenal.

In England in the common-law was merged the precepts of Christianity and the precepts of the ancient, unlegislated law of the Angles and the Saxons. All the freedom there is in this world comes from those roots of which you speak. But, lest ye forget, I mention it only to remind you those roots were replenished by men of the light, enlightened men.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 12:55
mozel (@Oh Preacher Tell Me This) ID#153102:

General Yamashita, "a foreign enemy alien", was sentenced to death in Manilla for war crimes. He sued for habeas corpus and prohibition to the US Supreme Court. Even though he never ordered his troops to commit crimes against humanity, it was held that "a superior officer is responsible for the acts of his subordinates."

Now, General is a title of an officer. And the subordinates of Attorney GENERAL Reno murdered women and children. BUT, WHERE IS JUSTICE DONE ?

YOU CANNOT SERVE AN EVIL GOVERNMENT WITH MORALITY. YOU CANNOT SERVE WITH "MORALITY IN STATION." Is only the murderer guilty and not the man who bound the victim so his throat could be more easily cut ? WHEN MEN ARE UNJUSTLY CONFINED, THEY HAVE BEEN DEAD FOR THAT TIME.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 12:37
mozel (@Ancestor of LGB) ID#153102:

when confronted by evidence from a new invention, called the microscope, closes eyes and says Blah, Blah, Blah or Baa, Baa, Baa, depending on his audience.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 12:09
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

The commandment is Thou shalt not murder.

The killer is to have his measure of death for the measure of death he given. Those who would live by the sword deserve to die by it.

And the MOTHER EARTH shall give her bounty forth in pain as any birthing woman who brings life into this world. Long live hot and cold running water.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 02:34
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

Hope your boy gets home safe.

Enjoyed your Dad's Garden of Eden poem. Considering all that was posted that evening about words, I was surprised no one posted, "And God said, ..." or "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Date: Mon May 11 1998 02:16
mozel (@aj) ID#153102:

Lest anyone mistake my views, I just want to say that action at law for a patriotic American today primarily serves vital educational purposes. With some education in law you will actually perceive the two sided meaning in the speech of the two faced lawyers in office. It prepares you to separate the political wheat from the chafe. It makes your thinking about government, power, and law sharper and more realistic. It's also in your personal self-interest.

No significant reform or change is going to come about from action at law alone. But, it delays them and buys time for developing awareness among the people at large.

Date: Mon May 11 1998 01:02
mozel (@Great Satan) ID#153102:

In the news yesterday I saw a report that a Roman Catholic Bishop in Pakistan had committed suicide in protest of a death sentence passed on a Christian for speaking in defense of Salman Rushde. Apparently, speaking in defense of Rushde, who wrote The Satanic Verses, is blasphemy in Islamic Pakistan. About 200 Christians are currently imprisoned under sentence of death for this or some other blasphemy of Islam in Pakistan. The accused person's mother was quoted as saying the charge was trumped up by people who wanted the family's land. Not too many people know it, but land was also a central, if underground, issue in the Salem Witch Trials in colonial Massachusetts during which about sixty people, I think, were hung. Boston Common was later the scene of the hanging of two Quakers for the crime of being Quakers in Boston.

Government is accepted among mankind to perform the function of arresting the criminal, of stopping the course of criminal behavior, whether its origin is domestic or external. Of perpetual importance to government, then, is to know what is criminal. The social sense of criminal originates outside government and a government out of step with the governed's sense of criminal loses credibility, authority, legitimacy, and finally power. It becomes the Great Satan.

The social sense of criminal originated first in religions. All religions are about the society's and the individual's relationship to unseen powers greater than ourselves. By the nineteenth century the predictive demonstrations of Science began to contend in the West as a source of explanation for our relationship to the unseen powers operating in Nature. Feelings once reserved for revealed religion were aroused in parts of society in reverance and respect for the accomplishments and power of Science. These converged with a revival of Christian collectivist doctrine and social conscience doctine. And a sense arose that denying the many the benefits of collective government directed according to science was criminal. The political movement for this new sense of criminal was socialism. New governments were established in Eur-Asia to enforce this new sense of criminal, which encompassed all offenses against the collective. In America a new government to enforce this new sense of criminal was legislated into being by FDR, his " ( Scientific ) Brain Trust", and the New Deal Congresses. The same was done in the States as they joined the federal co-operative. This development was known as Corporatism.

The most criminal act has ever been attempted overthrow of government. And the desire to have the advantages of the force of law protecting commercial interests has also often been a source of criminal law. Empire is nothing more than government protecting commercial interests with criminal law and enforcement. Finally, government has ever assumed a duty to protect the religious origin of the local sense of criminal. This was so under the common-law in which the King was also Defender of the Faith. In officially irreligious collectivist countries, varying from the party line was criminal blasphemy. Violating politically correct speech guidelines is currently criminal blasphemy against the multi-cultural, socialist New World Order. Many of the same people who think the Pakistanis are barbaric support hate speech crime laws. But, regulation of speech violates the most widely shared sense of right and wrong in America.

Jefferson regarded the Virginia Statute of Religious Liberty as a great accomplishment. It was for protection of Judeo-Christian liberty of religion only. Protection for religious liberty was later put in the federal Bill of Rights. Under the power in the 14th Amendment, the federal courts have adopted a decision rule which essentially divorces religion from government. The extension of this rule into the states has been most welcome to more secular people and less welcome to less secular people. Objectively, it has opened an ever-widening gap between the social sense of right and wrong of religious adherents and the government's legal definition of what is right and wrong. Awareness of the moral and legal significance of gold and silver coin as payment is increasing among religious adherents.

The prevailing opinion in America is that politics is a nasty waste of time.

There is a large constituency for the proposition that government ought to leave people alone if they are not harming others. This, a tacit law for many, is a mute desire for the common-law legal environment of the not too distant past. The more political law overlays common-law in the States, the more a gap opens between the government's legal definition of criminal and the sense of what is criminal of these people. This gap cannot be closed without restoring gold and silver coin as payment.

Jeil has stated the Constitution is a failed document. But, actually it seems to me it has succeeded very well in its primary purposes, which were to establish a government for a continent of States and for commercial empire. But, the pre-conditions for its failure now exist.

The dominant, all pervasive form of organization in modern America is the amoral corporation with no constitutency for truth in it. It broadcasts to us, employs us, sells to us, does good for us, even preaches to us. Industrial corporations, commercial corporations, media corporations, and non-profit corporations. Churches are even incorporated in many States. They operate with corporate conscience and corporate responsibility. Even individuals have corporate or "aritificial person" status which they have been shystered into. Virtually every American is mostly governed, socially and legally, directly and indirectly, by law for corporations. American government is of, by, and for corporations. And virtually every appearance in court is by attorney. The life of dependence in this new environment conflicts with the primal American social value of independence. Only gold can resolve this conflict.

The Federal Reserve System and the New Deal corporatism legislation were necessary so the federal government could continue to exist and govern in bankruptcy, borrowing on its credit. Corporations can operate in bankruptcy. Since no corporations are capitalized ( capitalization with notes being impossible ) , they exist in a form of unchaptered bankruptcy. On a personal level, an "artificial person" in bankruptcy appears in the law in forma pauperous. He has no property rights except liberty. As Americans begin to understand that they own no land and no car and that their stocka and bond certificates are the issue of uncapitalized corporations, they will discover what it means to have no property rights except liberty. Because they are living a fiction of work and competition in enterprise to own things, a gap will open between their legal status in forma pauperis and their sense of right and wrong. Only gold can close this gap.

Acceptance of dishonored Federal Reserve Notes for Nothing is vital to the bankrupt federal American government's continued existence and ability to govern. Repatriation of overseas greenbacks is a coming storm of debt due. It will expose the existence of the international gold standard and the unreliability of the United States Government's promises. Word travels fast in unsettled times. For all but the well-schooled at law. access to the common-law legal environment in which government leaves people alone will require gold and silver coin. To own land, the debt must be paid for in gold by a man. Allodial title cannot be obtained by an "artificial person" discharging an obligation using legal tender notes for nothing. Gold and silver coin in the hands of the people as money is a sine qua non to reconcile the social sense of right and wrong of most Americans with the legal definition of right and wrong by which they are governed. Eighty-five per cent of Americans feel government is out of control. Only gold can bring it back under their control. The political metal is going to be at the center of the coming political storm in These United States. This is not a short term prediction, but not one for the far future either. The Bell, Book, and Candle needed to exorcise the demons from demoncracy is Gold, the nemesis of Great Satan.

Date: Sun May 10 1998 09:14
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:

Your observations certainly apply to the federal level of government. But, not, I think, to the need to fill a deficiency of moral virtue among mankind.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 18:38
mozel (@aj) ID#153102:

If you can get into court at common-law, they have to give you the law. Very few get into court on that basis today. They get "equity" which involves "public policy" and "public interest", in other words, the judge's notion of what is fair or right. Since the revenue agents bring home the bacon for the whole tribe of them, ... you know the rest.

That said, I think there is merit in defensive preparation in law. There is even more merit in defensive plans to keep their eyes and hands off of it.

Pioneers like you have my admiration and respect.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 17:57
mozel (@themissinglink @Donald) ID#153102:

Themissinglink All I can say is that when the courts don't work anymore, it will be a short time until the shooting starts. The government is the law. If it can be fixed, it will be fixed by people doing as you propose. Because there is nothing like dealing with government one on one in a courtroom to educate a man as to what it's all about. And that eventually will produce meaningful political action along with legal action.

There is some progress from time to time. I understand that the bond for IRS agents has been raised from $100,000 to $1,000,000 and the government has told them they must acquire their own bond. ( If anyone knows the bonding company, please post it. There are judgements to be executed. ) I daresay this will do more to improve IRS conformance with the law than any political action before Congress.

It ain't easy. No part of it. But, then, whoever said Fredom was free ?

Donald The symbiotic relationship between government and corporations is at or near the root of many of the problems. Destroying the myth that corporations are private enterprise is part of the solution.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 17:30
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

Thanks for your posts on sun cycles and other phenomena. BBL